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Allis CA

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Sugarmaker View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2022 at 8:15pm
Allis folks,
 Ok here is what I think I have found and or have for the CA.
A friend has a CA front sterring box with the long arm, He does not have the lower spindle. Will my lower "C" spindel fit and function with a CA front casting/ Sterring box?

Also may have locared a D15 engine (which has had some recent work on it). It is attaqched to a rough tractor that I dont really want or need. The guy wants a pretty good buck for the engine and hulk. if the engine is good probably a lot less that a complete rebuild? He did a hone job and new rings and bearings. Engine had been stuck.
So will a D15 block bolt up direct to the CA torque tube, or are there mods that need to happen. What would be the increased HP from the CA to the D15? Is is worth the effort? 
More power doesnt mean hyou can get it to the ground. And I rarely see a stock Allis run out of power when in a low gear antique pull.
Thanks in advance for the support!
 Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DSeries4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2022 at 8:31pm
Originally posted by Sugarmaker Sugarmaker wrote:

Allis folks,
 Ok here is what I think I have found and or have for the CA.
A friend has a CA front sterring box with the long arm, He does not have the lower spindle. Will my lower "C" spindel fit and function with a CA front casting/ Sterring box?

Also may have locared a D15 engine (which has had some recent work on it). It is attaqched to a rough tractor that I dont really want or need. The guy wants a pretty good buck for the engine and hulk. if the engine is good probably a lot less that a complete rebuild? He did a hone job and new rings and bearings. Engine had been stuck.
So will a D15 block bolt up direct to the CA torque tube, or are there mods that need to happen. What would be the increased HP from the CA to the D15? Is is worth the effort? 
More power doesnt mean hyou can get it to the ground. And I rarely see a stock Allis run out of power when in a low gear antique pull.
Thanks in advance for the support!
 Regards,
 Chris


I am pretty certain that a 160 CI engine from a D15 II will pretty much a drop in to a CA.  I have never done it, but read it here some years ago and made a mental note of it.  The 160 engine dynos at 46 hp on the PTO in the D15 tractor, so you are getting almost 20 more ponies.   If I wanted more power from my CA, I would definitely do it.  I do not pull with my CA, so I am content with it's modest 26/27 hp!
'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14 '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '85 6080
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Joined: 12 Jul 2013
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2022 at 4:40pm
Dseries4, Folks,
Well I picked up the CA parts (well I think they are CA items?) today from a friend.


These may help improve the steering someday?

Our pup Ruby Loved the snow:

Three days ago our Orange in the yard:

Reggards,
 Chris


Edited by Sugarmaker - 13 Nov 2022 at 4:42pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2022 at 7:54pm
AC Folks,
I did get some time to tear into the CA. Hood off removed tank, drained the rad for removal and jacked up the tractor for work on the front end. The plan is to change the front casting to the long arm version. Also have new sterring box if this one can't be improved.

I did find that the exhaust manifold is broken on both ends! I think you guys warned me about this!



Plan to put on a Denso alternator:

Wheel bearings seem good, Tires and wheels just OK. I have seen worse.

Regards,
 Chris


Edited by Sugarmaker - 26 Dec 2022 at 8:00pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lon(MN) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2022 at 7:03am
Are you going to put the correct CA front end on or just use the C front pedestal?
http://lonsallischalmers.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2022 at 6:26pm
Lon, Folks,
I will try to use the parts I have, Which I think are C  front parts, since they don't have the knobs sticking out the front.
 Since I am a complete newbie to CA trctors, my real goal was to get the steering to be much better! I have this front upper casting which has ears sticking out with the short arm. Also I have a upper front casting with no ears and a long arm. (read between the lines, I dont know what is right or wrong) 
I need to go look back at some pictures posted above^! 
I also have a much better and straight drag link, with much better ball joints. I also have a Ross steering box that seems to have less play in the box although I have not taken the starter off to try to improve the slop in the current Ross steering unit.
So I am going to
- remove the starter and see if the ccurrent steering box can be adjusted, If not I will replace with the better one.
- evaluate the front upper castings. I feel I want the long arm version for easier steering?
- remove the very worn drag link and install the better drag link.
Then test and evaluate any changes.
Regards,
 Chris



Edited by Sugarmaker - 28 Dec 2022 at 6:43pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dakota Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2022 at 9:37pm
what you have pictured is a C front bolster. it will bolt on to a CA and work fine. I put a CA bolster on my just had to cut the cultivator boss off to put the C radiator grill on. and reengineer the C cultivator bar the rear mounting boss are an inch further back. the lower pedestal is interchangable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 6:49am
Dave, Folks,
 Thanks! Thats what everything was pointing to. Now to just get back at it! One of those winter projects, on the back burner. 
Thanks for checking in on me and the Johnny Cash tractor!
Happy New Year!
RFegards,
 Chris

D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote exSW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 6:59am
You better get crackin'. Sugar season's just around the corner!
Learning AC...slowly
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lon(MN) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 6:59am
As far as I know all the gears and shafts will interchange. The castings on the CA and C are different. As you know the upper casting on the CA has the two bosses, the lower casting is heavier on the CA. The steering box under the gas tank is different then a C, so hopefully you have the CA box. I am better at telling a story rather then writing so don't take what I write the wrong way. Have some fun along the way.
http://lonsallischalmers.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 8:11am
This C and CA front stuff gives me a headache and I'm not even dealing with it! But that double A or double B Truck in the back round sure caught my eye! Can't see the grille shell well in the pics. Short wheel base, dual rear wheels and short dove tail running board. That's eye candy to me as well Chris!   LOL!  I had a 30 AA Truck years back. Very cool!
Steve@B&B
39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 10:00am
SteveNJ, Folks,
 Now you have me thinking on the CA vs C steering box?? I dont know the exact differences, but will be evaluating that more in the future.
Yes as EXSW mentions sugaring season will be ramping up in about a month so I really need to get this CA back on its feet!

The truck, well you guys know I like to post pictures and lots of words and off topic stories. If you want all the gory details and more about the truck check out this thread on the Ford Barn which I started a year and half ago! 
A detail for Any old early big Ford trucks mine is a AAB VIN number, which means it was a fairly early build in 1932. I am warning you before you go there, its not for the weak of heart!:) These Ford guys are as bad/good as us Allis Folks!

Regards,
 Chris


Edited by Sugarmaker - 29 Dec 2022 at 10:05am
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 6:56pm
Chris, glad to see you making progress on this one. Going to get a new manifold from somewhere? I am not sure how many options for quality manifolds there are these days.
1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2022 at 4:22pm
John,
 I might get a new manifold, that is if I can find one. This one is working but sure doesnt look very secure.
 Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IBWD MIke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2022 at 8:07am
Chris, about a year ago I got a new Vinson manifold from a fellow in Mo. He might have another one or two. Thought I had a business card for him but can't find it. Ran into him at the Amana show.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2022 at 10:17am
Mike, 
Let me know I This one is sketcy at best. And probably leaking some too, since it set the tractor on fire in that area. Maight have been oil and grease.

Worked a little more on the front end on the CA. Its just screaming to be cleaned up and painted!

Drag link is almost ready. Need a couple 9/16-18 castleated nuts. It is way better than the old one. Threads are boogered a little on one end.

I installed the new Ross box and everything seems to fit OK. It is also a lot better than the one with the yellow arm:

Pulled rad and the rad support, then dropped the front vertical spindle:

It was jammed with old dried grease. Removed the gear and popped out the shaft:

The lower bearing was intact (for a while) but had some slop and was pretty dry. Not helping the steering since the tractor rests on this bearing. It then decided to come apart. I believe I should try to get a new bearing! This may be a load type bearing. I have not started any research for it. Outher race has a Timken number on it. 

Still debating this front casting. I could take the short arm out and replace with the long  arm out of the other casting. This would allow me to keep the casting in place with the ears and the holes. These might be usefull at some point to secure weights?? Are the ears for the Allis CA side weights?? Or I could use them as attackment points to chain the front down to the trailer??

Happy New year!
Regards,
 Chris


Edited by Sugarmaker - 31 Dec 2022 at 10:27am
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2022 at 10:48am
Yes the ears are for the side weights, Bs and Cs are interchangeable, CAs are a little longer. You have to be careful putting them on and off, if one gets away from you and falls it will break the casting on the bolster,not to mention what it would do to your foot
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2022 at 7:16pm
Tom,
 Thanks for the info on the weights. I thought the owner had a set but never found them.
I think I am going to change out the front casting with the one with no ears, but has the long steering arm. 
Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2022 at 8:37pm
To bad you can't find the side weights,those side weights are extremely hard to find and are priced accordingly. Keep in mind a CA is notoriously light in the front end.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2023 at 6:43am
Tom,
 Yes I know they are light in the front. I seen a set on E-Bay for $500. A little too rich for me!
 I will try to check with the owner again.
Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2023 at 4:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2023 at 8:56am
Folks,
 A few gory details. I rethreaded the damaged rod ends and found some 9/16-18 nuts at the hardware. These are going to be fine and the drag link is way better than what was on the CA:

I did call the original owner and he said he would look for the side weights and the other split rear wheel weights (not Allis, IH version).

I am prototyping the mounting of the Denso one wire alternator. Using the front portion of the generator mount, and fabricating a new upper support/ adjustment bracket. The set up looks to be stiff enough, secure, and pretty good alignment with the engine pulleys:


I had another bracket built to go on the lower front of the alternator pivot but found it wasnt really needed, and made the head of the pivot bolt too close to the belt. Sure just stick in some washers for spacers and a metric bolt too! :) Bolt has been trimed to look not so cludged up!

Also put a order in to Sandy Lake Implements for front lower bearing and race. Some upper gaskets, battery box, rear brake shoes the list goes on.....
It is a very slippery slope on this project at this time, it could suck up many more hours and dollars for a (RCP) Refurb, Clean and Paint. Not sure of my next moves.
Yea there is the lure of a D15 series II engine transplant still lingering also. Yea that would just blow the budget.
Lets see, the goal was to:
- Improve the steering 
- get a 12 volt charging system in place.
- maybe tidy up a few other things
- go pulling!
Will I stick to that plan? Time will tell. Getting close to syrup season. 
Regards,
 Chris



Edited by Sugarmaker - 04 Jan 2023 at 9:10am
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tadams(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2023 at 9:02am
 Looking good and sounds like a plan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2023 at 9:15am
Gary,
 The wide front in NJ is from a CA I believe, with the two casting knobs sticking out at the bottom. No I am going to stick with a narrow front end type tractor style. They tuck in nicely when loading two units on the trailer to go pulling.
 Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2023 at 9:19am
that alternator fits NICE... Brackets are SIMPLE but Effective !!

one of the BIG problems is keeping the fan belt away from the lower radiator hose tube.. You seem to have the RIGHT belt to get that done... NICE.


Edited by steve(ill) - 04 Jan 2023 at 9:21am
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2023 at 8:15pm
Folks,
The serial number for the CA:

I will replace the non functioning components in the dash box. Mock up here:

Lubed the brake pins and got the floor board off. Many things have been abused or neglected on the old CA. Brake spring missing. seat pivots bad. Floor board cut and bent:


I have a Allis CA book coming. Do you pull the rear wheels to make it easier to work on the brakes? I see two pins up on the top side that look like they hold the bands in place. 
I will have to order another batch of parts to correct / improve some of the items. Still not sure of the exact plan for this tractor for a clean up stand point. Have heard many times "panit dont pull" ! I have the WZ that would make a good match with the crusty CA in their work clothes. My WD45 and Nics WD are looking pretty good as painted tractors. So we would have 2500, 3500, 4000, and 4500 lb classes covered. And if we had weight brackets on the CA it could go in the 3000 lb class too. I just cant haul all of them!:)

Regards,
 Chris


Edited by Sugarmaker - 05 Jan 2023 at 8:26pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2023 at 6:29am
Originally posted by Sugarmaker Sugarmaker wrote:

Have heard many times "panit dont pull" 

Regards,
 Chris
IF YOU CAN"T MAKE IT GO...MAKE IT SHINY
Anyone remember Dave Stangle or the Thomas brothers? 
I've seen many pretty paint jobs that fell flat when hooked to a sled. Yea the big time pullers with plenty of cash to piss away have nice shiny tractors, although paint and chrome can't get you any further down the track. 

If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2023 at 7:33am
From the serial number it should be a 1955 , as far as the brake pins, I believe originally the hole for the brake pin was a blind hole mine has a hole on both sides of the casting so you can drive the pin out and change the brakes out without doing major surgery.If they were a one way blind hole in the casting I can see where if it went in a shop for brake work at sometime the shop drilled the hole to make life ever so much easier.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tadams(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2023 at 1:09pm
 I have done brake on 2 CAs but it been to many years and don't remember but I do remember not having trouble like I read about on the WD.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2023 at 6:54am
Thanks guys,
I did find more problems! Not a big suprise! Left brake drum in almost gone. Looks like this is the way you take a medium cost tractor and make it into a expensive tractor!:) Not going pulling with out some brake action. So I ordered a brake drum and other items yesterday. May get to tear into this once I get the front end back together. Then I can move it under the jib crane to move the tire and the axle housing easier.
New battery box and brake bands came yesterday. Look great!
Regards,
 Chris


Edited by Sugarmaker - 07 Jan 2023 at 11:23am
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump.
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