Allis "C" Engine Seizes, then Re-Starts???

Hello:

Yes, I had the clutch in the first time when it seized. It has nothing to do with the tranny.

Gotta go with Ted sounds like gas or carb.

Not starving for gas either, i have tried choking it while it is sieizing, and it will blow black smoke out of the muffler. And it does not roll to a stop, it is sudden.

Crusty cooling system letting a piston overheat?

Gerald J.

Gerald has a good point about piston, also take rocker cover off and see if oil is getting up there while engine is running.

If it has a mag check the impulse. My C had one of the little impulse dog springs break and lock up the mag. It even did me the nice favor of shearing a couple of teeth off of the gov.

The cylinders looked fine when I looked in them with a scope. It was sitting inside too, not loaded up with rain. The rockers are getting plenty of oil, and I "spun" the push rods and checked for clearance when cold. I will look in the clutch housing, and yes the hydraulic pump is off the crank pulley.  Thanks so much for all the advice, I really appreciate it. Also wondering if this problem is linked to the cylinder mis-fire when under load. It will idle on all 4, but only on 3 when under load. All new electrical, plugs, coil, wires, points and condensor.

It has a message for you. Its saying, "I HURT!"

Besides the crud making rings tight in a cylinder like crud behind the rings and along side keeping them from flexing as the piston goes up and down in the worn barrel shaped bore, I think you could have another problem.

In forcing a stuck engine you can have bent a rod or two. Forces can be a lot more than the push of the power stroke that the rod is designed to handle. The bend is probably perpendicular to the bores of the rod because the I beam rod is weaker in that direction. That's putting the piston in a bind in the cylinder and the rod bearing in a bind on the journal. Both heat up more when you load the engine than when idling and the piston gets tight in the bore causing the engine the screech to a halt. It runs again after its cooled down. Aluminum pistons grow faster than steel cylinders when heated.

If you keep running it with the bent rod (or rods since rocking back and forth you pushed on all four) it will have one more message for you, "I QUIT" which will be identified by part of a broken rod poking a new access hole in the side of the block or pan.

The only way to be sure no rod is bent is to take the engine fully apart and take the piston rods out of the pistons and then acquire a chunk of rod the size of the crank journal, or better the crank bore in the rod, then using the piston pin as the other rod, using a long micrometer or precise dial caliper checking that those two rods are parallel. Then its a good time to take the rings off the pistons so you can clean behind the rings, and measure the wear of the cylinder bore. You may find you need rings as one is broken and trying to roll over when hot, that the pistons are worn so the rings rattle and that you had to ream a large ridge out of the cylinder to get the rings up out of the cylinder. Then its probably time for a kit of pistons, rings, and sleeves. And straight rods along with rod and main bearings.

Another possibility is that the oil passage through the crank is plugged and a cylinder is not being lubricated by spray from the rod bearing or sometimes there's a hole in the rod to squirt oil up a cylinder. So that one runs hotter.

Still its saying, "I HURT" and if you keep running it without responding to that message it will say, "I QUIT" in a most destructive manner.

Gerald J.

If there's a hydraulic pump up front powering the loader off the crank, before I would condemn the engine with a piston problem, I would see if that hydro pump is what's seizing under load and stopping the engine. If the engine starts right back up again right after this occurs, I doubt very much that it would be an internal engine problem, unless you're waiting an hour or so to start it up again. If that's the case, then maybe, it could be an internal problem, but if it starts right back up after it does that, I don't think its an engine problem.  Sounds more like a drivetrain problem somewhere either clutch/PTO or that hydro pump. I work with Hydraulics all day long on bucket trucks, and hydraulics can do some goofy things, especially when it comes to pumps. Pump clearance isn't correct, it can stop a large Diesel engine without a problem... JMO
Steve@B&B

I had the same problem with an RC.  Would run fine until you worked it, then would seize up.  What I found was a build up of sludge in the cooling jacket behind and around the third and fourth piston sleeve that would not allow coolant to cool those two cylinders.  Mine had the old cast iron pistons yet, and the heat would seize them up.  Cleaned out the water jacket by pulling the sleeves and problem solved.  I just put a kit in the motor, new sleeves and pistons.

Thanks again guys for all the replys and ideas, it is very much appreciated. I will un hook the hydraulic pump today and run it. I really dont think it is rusty rings or cylinders, this is not my first old tractor I have worked on, and I am aware of forcing a engine free and starting it.  The engine was full of clean antifreeze when I drained it,  but I would not rule out a hot spot in the engine. I have a B with a good engine that in worst case I was going to swap the engine out to use in the C, since the B has a cracked transmission, and the C is a fully functional tractor with a loader. But the engine in the C seems fine except for the problem discussed above. It idles like a clock, the oil gauge is almost pegged, and the temp never goes above 125.  I know that the oil does not pass through the crank to the bearings, like the old 216 Chevy engines. I will keep you guys updated,  and thanks so much for the help.