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mrtractor 
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 Topic: 1952 Allis-Chalmers B Rebuild/Restore Questions
Posted: 16 Sep 2015 at 8:11pm |
Hello,
I purchased a (supposedly) 1952 Allis-Chalmers B with a narrow front end (must be from a C from my reading) and I'm looking to first rebuild and get it running and then restore it. I've never owned a tractor before, I didn't even grown up on a farm, but I sure as heck have got the itch to get this beautiful machine running again.
I paid $700 dollars for it (I probably overpaid), it has 2 frozen pistons, and has been apart for about 8 years in a garage, it looks in pretty good shape. It came with a Woods L59 belly mower.
I know I have to clean up the engine, I was thinking about buying an overhaul kit with pistons and sleeves. Here are my questions:
How'd I do?
Where do I start with the engine, do I just buy the overhaul kit (on YT ~ $650) and start digging into it? I don't know much about motors but I'm pretty mechanically inclined and can figure things out. I understand it's a big job, it'll be a learning experience.
I figured I wouldn't worry about getting the pistons unstuck (was left outside and some rain apparently got in there, it doesn't look all rusty but they're stuck) and just pop them out with the sleeves since the overhaul kit comes with the sleeves, can I do this? Should I do this?
He said I should bring the head to have it professionally cleaned, it looks gunked up, not rusty or anything). Do I really need to bring it in? I heard someone online saying to make sure and get it "cooked", what does that mean?
Anything I should look for specifically before or after pulling the sleeves/pistons? What should I take pictures of to help on forum questions?
Any books you recommend?
Best place for parts? (DJs, YT, OK, anywhere else?)
Where can I find a picture of an original 1950s B so that I can see the original color scheme for all parts/body?
Sorry for the book but I figured I'd ask the experts.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 16 Sep 2015 at 8:21pm |
the rear hubs have 5 bolts which appear to be from a model C.. with the narrow front, I assume you have a "C".. serial number is by the shift lever stamped into the case.
Motor stuck, a kit with pistons and liners would be a good start. You might be able to save the liners and pistons, and just install new rings if you really know what your doing. Yes, you can pop them out as a unit, but you need to get the piston out of the liner so you can take out the connecting rod and reuse it.
Motor is very simple. When the liners are out you can pressure wash inside the block and clean out all the gunk. The bottom end is somewhat different than a car motor. The bearing caps normally have a few shims between the block and cap on the bolt. Removal of a couple shims will allow you to tighten up the clearances. YOu will need to measure the crank and bearings and get the clearances set right. If you have not done this, you wil need a little help or advice when you get to that point. A micrometer would help. The crank has to be round. Several thousandths out of round would not be good... Taking the head to a shop and letting them fit the stem guides and lap the valves might be a good idea.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 16 Sep 2015 at 8:23pm |
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You might want to get at IT service book and get a few pointers on rebuild. If you got a buddy that does motors, a few pointers now and then would help. You can ask here, but first hand "look and see" is always nice.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 16 Sep 2015 at 8:26pm |
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Some B's had the 5 bolt rear wheels but no B's had a narrow front end from the factory. I can't tell from the picture how wide the finals are. If they are wide like a C it could be a C with a B tranny if the tractor number starts with a B.
If the cylinders don't have a lot of ridge in the top and aren't rusted up or scored, you might be able to get it running without an OH kit. If you buy a kit with bearings, you need to mic the crank before you order it to get the right bearings.
Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 16 Sep 2015 at 8:28pm
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 16 Sep 2015 at 8:34pm |
what is the serial number ? photo of tractor from left side to show steering. photo from back to show final drive housings.
---rear hubs are deep dish (C) and rims appear to be set in as far ass possible for narrow width....... looks like new rims ?? Are the 4 mounting bolts of the hub to the rim go thru a steel "loop" welded to the rim ?
Edited by steve(ill) - 16 Sep 2015 at 8:36pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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mrtractor
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Posted: 16 Sep 2015 at 8:35pm |
Thanks guys!I tried to look at the serial but it looks to have been painted pretty thick and I couldn't get a good look at it (it was getting pretty late though). I have it stored at my father's house, I'll take a some detailed pictures this weekend and try to figure out what it is.
I have the IT and another service manual and have read through them a bit, it actually looks pretty simple, it's just the nuances that I don't know. I'm looking for the owners manual now so I can read about general maintenance that will tell me a bit more on what to grease/lube/etc that will give me a general idea about the tractor.
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Hubnut
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Posted: 16 Sep 2015 at 8:39pm |
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Welcome. I'm an urban tractor guy too. I've restored two Cs, a Ford 2N, and now working on a B. I agree with CTucker and others, you may have a C there. Could you post a picture of the tractor from behind? I learned on the fly, but I bought a CD on how to rebuild the B,C,CA engine from J&D productions. I think I bought the copy on Amazon. It was excellent for a novice like me. I highly recommend it. People here too are excellent sources of info. DickL on here is arguably the "go to" person on these little tractors. He's been very helpful to me.
Enjoy.
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Hubnut
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Posted: 16 Sep 2015 at 8:42pm |
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By the way, here is a thread on my C rebuild. It does get pricey.
http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=102874&KW=&title=my-c-restoration-update-29-aug-15
Edited by Hubnut - 16 Sep 2015 at 8:43pm
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 16 Sep 2015 at 8:42pm |
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I have "rebuilt" several of the model B tractors and never bought a piston / liner kit. I have had a couple "stuck" and one burned more oil in an hour than it held... If you can get everything apart and clean it up and measure, you might be able to save quite a few parts... Takes a little extra work to clean up liners / pistons and measure all for round and wear, but could save some $$$...... same for the bearings. Are the worn, or just need a shim adjustment ? I have broke one liner getting it out of the block, and had one cam shaft worn out, and a couple valves that were too worn to relap....... other than that, I have reused MOST parts.......... piston rings, liner O-rings, gaskets, and a LOT of work is what I normally do.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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mrtractor
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Posted: 16 Sep 2015 at 8:43pm |
One thing I did note was that the steering linkage (or whatever it's called, sorry) points up, and apparently on a B it points down. I just assumed that since I was told it was a B, and found out from reading online that B's didn't ever come from the factory with a narrow front, that putting the narrow front on it from a C may require you to change that piece too.
I'll take some pics from every angle this weekend.
Wow! You guys are very responsive!!
Hubnut, thanks for posting that link, that's kind of what I was looking for, only been searching for B stuff ha!
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Dick L
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Posted: 16 Sep 2015 at 8:53pm |
Since C fenders are not as easy to find to replace if needed and this tractor has the C fenders I would guess it is a C. A picture from the rear showing the drawbar would be the key to its identity. The center drawbar is from a B the outside one is from a C.  These little engines are great to learn on. They are a little different than an auto engine as how the oil system works and the way the main and rod bearings are shimmed. The bearing bores can be upgraded to not need shimmed but costs more money. The main thing is to make sure how each and every detail works and why. You will find a lot of good help on this site.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 16 Sep 2015 at 8:55pm |
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If the steering arm points up ( at the gas tank), then you have a "C" gear box also......... starting to look like a C tractor.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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mrtractor
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Posted: 16 Sep 2015 at 9:04pm |
I'm happy with a C as well, that's just what he said and I believed him, I'm sure he'll be surprised too.
I saw the tractor and I wanted to work on it and the guy said he didn't have the energy so I asked him a couple weeks later if he'd sell it because I really liked the way it looked and wanted to work on it.
Like I said, we'll get this cleared up this weekend, it already sounds like it's a C though.
I noticed that the paint is really thick over the serial and I can't even read it clearly, can I chip some of it off or what should I do?
Is there multiple places I should be looking?
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Dick L
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Posted: 16 Sep 2015 at 9:07pm |
A narrow C front on a B using a B steering box. 
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mrtractor
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Posted: 16 Sep 2015 at 9:11pm |
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Dick L, yeah the one I have points up towards the tank. Also, my rear wheels are about maybe 6 or more inches from the fenders. Must be a C.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 16 Sep 2015 at 9:12pm |
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I prefer the look of the "B" gearbox on a C tractor... always wondered why AC decided to use the inverted crank box ?
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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mrtractor
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Posted: 16 Sep 2015 at 9:13pm |
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Oh, another question. If I have to buy an overhaul kit, I see standard vs overbore and I'm not sure which I need. How do I tell?
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 16 Sep 2015 at 9:15pm |
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the very early B models were 3- 1/4 inch bore.......... all C models and later B were 3-3/8 bore ............. most if not ALL aftermarket kits are 3-7/16 bore ....... either is fine.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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mrtractor
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Posted: 16 Sep 2015 at 9:26pm |
So if this does turn out to be a C does that mean it's probably not a 1952 either?
I was reading "The Little A-Cs" PDF and it said they were made from 1940 to 1950. TractorData says 1940 to 1949.
Edited by mrtractor - 16 Sep 2015 at 9:27pm
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 16 Sep 2015 at 9:38pm |
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correct, but yours has a distributor, not a magneto......... so its probably very late 1948- 49 -50.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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mrtractor
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Posted: 16 Sep 2015 at 9:40pm |
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He did say the farmer he bought it from converted it to an electric start, not sure if that matters.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 16 Sep 2015 at 9:53pm |
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well, if it was not electric start in the beginning, then it would be early 1940s...... look at the generator and see if it is bolted to the motor block on cast bosses. The casting was changed when the generator was added....... if the starter was added "later", then they had to change the bellhousing, clutch, ring gear, battery box, etc... lot of work..... he may have ment the tractor was a magneto ignition and was changed to a distributor... several have done that when the old mag dies.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steigerbro24
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Posted: 16 Sep 2015 at 11:01pm |
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What shape is that mower in? Might be worth a decent chunk of that 700 if its in good shape
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5 Steigers, 7 John Deeres, 8 Internationals, 4 Case tractors and combines and 1 Oliver
........... Oh wait they're all 1/64.......and a real '44 B
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mrtractor
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Posted: 16 Sep 2015 at 11:03pm |
The mower is in really good shape, a little rust but way better than the $400-$600 ones I saw on ebay, and he included a brand new set of woods blades.
I post some pics of it this weekend.
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mrtractor
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Posted: 16 Sep 2015 at 11:04pm |
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Oh, and brand new belts as well.
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corbinstein
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Posted: 17 Sep 2015 at 6:45am |
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try one of those simple unsticking methods everybody uses.
Before you go tearing it down, pull the spark plugs and add a 50/50 mix of acetone and diesel fuel or atf. fill up the plug holes and let it sit a few days. yank the starter and using a large screwdriver or small prybar, work the flywheel back and forth until it breaks free.
Edited by corbinstein - 17 Sep 2015 at 6:47am
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Ken in Texas
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Posted: 17 Sep 2015 at 7:09am |
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Everything I see in the picture has "C" written all over it.
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Ken in Texas
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Posted: 17 Sep 2015 at 7:21am |
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If I'm not mistaken all Cs were electric start,even the first ones with short steering arms and handbrakes. The real early Cs had the CE prefix engine number on the back of the block
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Dick L
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Posted: 17 Sep 2015 at 7:30am |
 Ken in Texas wrote:
If I'm not mistaken all Cs were electric start,even the first ones with short steering arms and handbrakes. The real early Cs had the CE prefix engine number on the back of the block |
All C's had the torque tube with the starter hole. They could be bought without a starter with a delete plug in the hole. I don't know the years they could be bought this way or if it was up until they stopped making the C. I think it takes a serial number to tell the year if it still has the original transmission.
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Ken in Texas
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Posted: 17 Sep 2015 at 7:52am |
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During the war years not all new Bs and Cs had starters but the hole was there for a starter.
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