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New truck sales; waiting on chips

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DMiller View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2021 at 4:09pm
SE Asia, Malaysia to be precise makes the base wafers for the chips, the Taiwan company takes a blank wafer and etches or imprints the chip structure on the blank wafer.  No wafers or slow delivery and no chips or slow delivery.

Wife worked some 22 years for MEMC Monsanto Electronics Materials Corporation in St Peters MO making said wafers, they were top of the mark of technology until 2005, then it was all being shipped to Malaysia.  Plant closed and she was laid off is why we moved to Hermann.

Are still a number of chips being produced, just nowhere near enough to feed our auto sales lines.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2021 at 4:41pm
How many embedded processors does your car have? Go ahead, guess. If you've got a late-model luxury sedan, two or three processors might be obvious in the GPS navigation system or the automatic distance control. Yet you'd still be off by a factor of 25 or 50. The current 7-Series BMW and S-class Mercedes boast about 100 processors apiece. A relatively low-profile Volvo still has 50 to 60 baby processors on board. Even a boring low-cost econobox has a few dozen different microprocessors in it. Your transportation appliance probably has more chips than your Internet appliance.

The statistics are startling. New cars now frequently carry 200 pounds of electronics and more than a mile of wiring. Processors and their peripherals have squeezed into the side- and rear-view mirrors, wheel rims, headliner, gas tank, seat cushions, headrests, bumpers, and every other crevice of a modern car. Dashboard electronics such as the radio, air conditioning, and satellite navigation system are just the obvious ones. Even more MIPS and MHz are lurking under the surface.

For example, the radio on many cars talks to the automatic transmission over an in-car network. Why? So the radio can automatically adjust its volume in relation to road noise (which is a function of speed). The airbag accelerometer, parking lights, GPS navigation, cell phone, and door locks also network so that in a serious accident, the car calls for emergency aid, sends the GPS coordinates of the accident, unlocks the doors, and flashes the car's lights. Side mirrors get a cue from the transmission so that when the driver shifts into reverse, the mirrors bend down and inward, the better to provide a view of what you're backing into.



Edited by steve(ill) - 30 May 2021 at 4:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2021 at 7:07am
The owners of my company told us of the impending chip shortage back I February. Not that they knew why or the whole story but things were lining up for it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2021 at 7:24am
I'm thinking it will take a year or more for things to get back to "normal". 

It's very easy to blame the politicians (from either side) or government, but a lot of the shortages, or sharply increased demand, are the results of the pandemic. 

Plants were closed, airlines weren't flying, no one was renting cars and overall demand for a petroleum and a lot of other things was way down, with no one knowing when, or what, the new "normal" would be. Production or supply of a lot of things was slowed down and it is going to take a while for production and supply to meet the present demand.


Edited by WF owner - 31 May 2021 at 7:25am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TramwayGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2021 at 7:39am
Fella I know in NH ordered a new (GM) work truck; dealer called three weeks later to tell him they couldn’t give a delivery date due to chip shortage. The key fob!

Told him if he went up a level on trim that had pushbutton starting, he could get a truck. $8000 upgrade.

On the other hand, I ordered a new Ram Cummins at the same time, and it’s ready at the dealer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2021 at 5:55pm
Saw a 2018 Ford Diesel 4x4
For sale. Had 100000 miles. They were asking $67000 and supposedly it sold.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2021 at 6:15pm
This is far from over, GM said it was seeing a trickle return of processor chips but they are still on the short end.  There is talk of reductions of the load of processors in machines as this is NUTS, will see where that goes.

Our 2017 Exploder has 14 processors in it that speak to each other and manage the car.  My 2010 Pimpala has three.  The last semi I looked at was a Freightliner Cascadia, had 17 and a SAM Module to manage all the rest, worthless crap when fails and do so repetitively.

My 2012 Harley has but two processors, buddy of mine has a 2015 similar looking machine, has Seven, working everything but clutch and shifting.




Edited by DMiller - 31 May 2021 at 6:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill_MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2021 at 6:21pm
There was also a large fire at one of the big chip factories in Asia that they are just now getting back online, not to mention the shipping container issues affecting just about everything imported.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr p Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2021 at 7:50pm
I ordered a new ram 2500 14 January. Got it on Friday
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2021 at 3:49am
How many trucks were on that dealer lot when ordered?
How many now?

Used to be could buy off the inventory and drive off, there are next to no inventories currently other than those awaiting parts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sho-man1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2021 at 7:09am
"Chips" used in automobile manufacturing/production have much different rules/specifications than consumer electronics...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2021 at 7:16am
All the 'chips' I use are good from -40*C to +125*C... never had a 'supply' issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2021 at 2:50pm
Here is a good example... 20 years ago i had a MECHANICAL battery charger.... Today i have a 19v battery powered drill that "something" went wrong with the "BATTERY"... i open it up and it has a  CIRCUIT BOARD inside with the battery cells... It measures the battery voltage, charger voltage, rate of charge, any bad cells, anyone trying ti BYPASS the system, time to charge, etc, etc..... here is the "BOARD".... i count 16 CHIPS inside to do all the work.. Some are very small and probably just ON-OFF switches or timers, but still.... 16 CHIPS to charge a BATTERY !


Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JW in MO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2021 at 4:00pm
I worked on commercial ice makers since the mid 70’s, I could fix most any machine with either a pressure switch, timer or a thermostat, no electronics necessary. New energy standards changed that, now, Manitowoc uses a microphone, (about the size of a 3/16” watch battery), in the water stream and puts the unit into harvest based on a predetermined decibel setting made by the fracturing ice. I’m sure that alone requires a couple of chips not counting all the rest of the stuff it does.
Maximum use of available resources!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2021 at 4:10pm
Originally posted by JW in MO JW in MO wrote:

I worked on commercial ice makers since the mid 70’s, I could fix most any machine with either a pressure switch, timer or a thermostat, no electronics necessary. New energy standards changed that, now, Manitowoc uses a microphone, (about the size of a 3/16” watch battery), in the water stream and puts the unit into harvest based on a predetermined decibel setting made by the fracturing ice. I’m sure that alone requires a couple of chips not counting all the rest of the stuff it does. Wait...WHAT? mic in the water stream..harvest mode? whach u takin about Willis? what's all that got to do with freezing water?  Probably a German product, they are great for $900 mouse traps with 132 precision moving parts that require realignment/recalibration twice a year
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be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2021 at 4:11pm
Originally posted by steve(ill) steve(ill) wrote:

Here is a good example... 20 years ago i had a MECHANICAL battery charger.... Today i have a 19v battery powered drill that "something" went wrong with the "BATTERY"... i open it up and it has a  CIRCUIT BOARD inside with the battery cells... It measures the battery voltage, charger voltage, rate of charge, any bad cells, anyone trying ti BYPASS the system, time to charge, etc, etc..... here is the "BOARD".... i count 16 CHIPS inside to do all the work.. Some are very small and probably just ON-OFF switches or timers, but still.... 16 CHIPS to charge a BATTERY !
you forgot temp monitoring


I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2021 at 4:27pm
YEP !!! ...Thumbs Up   Thumbs Up   Thumbs Up

and if i listen to Jay, this thing is probably collecting my data and sending it to the CHINEESE !! Wink

If it takes 16  CHIPS to charge a 19 volt battery, just think what it takes to shift a 10 speed truck transmission !!  Clap


Edited by steve(ill) - 01 Jun 2021 at 4:28pm
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2021 at 8:19pm
Originally posted by steve(ill) steve(ill) wrote:

YEP !!! ...Thumbs Up   Thumbs Up   Thumbs Up

 just think what it takes to shift a 10 speed truck transmission !!  Clap

All I've ever needed was my right foot and right arm. Thumbs Up NO STINKING CHIPS NESSARRYCensored The time I was working for a company that had those Blankity Blank Atuoshift Dead transmissions was the worst few years of my 45+ years of driving.  If I'm going to drive an automatic, I'll have an Allison  Smile   Real trucks have 2 sticks !!!
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2021 at 11:58am
Lou you are luck most of us are old, so if we think and remember we can put the Willis comment in the right show.

But to the more important stuff. Most times it seem safer Wink to believe the conspiracy theories until proven wrong. As so many seem to becoming the reality. So, so sad.Cry


Drive us back to living in a cave, because of "global warming" that is now "climate change" because we just cannot get that damm ocean to flood Washington DC and drown the swamp. But ever little thing that has worked for decades like a ice maker now needs a computer to work.

Thank about it. Wink Why do rich people that all promote the PC thinking still buy ocean front property for really big bucks. LOL It should be under water in a year or 2. Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2021 at 12:12pm
Steve, yes a LOT of 'stuff' to charge that pack. Typical, welcome to the Lithium-Ion battery world. EACH cell, yours has 5, needs to be individually monitored and charged, else...well. 'bad' things can happen. Also some mfrs chargers 'look' at the 'battery pack' and test if it's one of theirs. If not, the charger will NOT recharge the battery. Inkjet printers were/are like this, there's a 'chip' IN the ink cartridge, so you have to buy THEIR ink carts. well, unless you reverse engineer what 'they' did, then you can use anyone's cart.
If you want to be truly amazed or dumbfounded, have a look at the actual schematics for any E-car 'battery pack' !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnColo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2021 at 11:13am
My orchard business partner's late father in law, Jack Kilby, invented the microprocessor in the late 1950's while everyone else at TI was on Christmas break, (he was a new hire).  Anyway, he won the Noble prize for science and was interviewed by a reporter from Time magazine who asked if he now had any regrets for his discovery.  He mentioned the use of chips in Land Mines but what seemed silly to him was the birthday card his sister sent him that sang "Happy Birthday" when he opened it.  That was 20 plus years ago...
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Jack Kilby's Office (memorialized) is downstairs from mine. He worked through the summer shutdown to create one substrate with capacitor, resistor, inductor and some transistors built on top of it. The first integrated circuit. He said he didn't think about appearances of his device other than it worked. He said if I would have known the impact of it, I would have prettied it up some... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2021 at 8:41am
gee, I've got some Intel 4004 micros (1st ones for Intel..)in the basement..and they still WORK !!!
Jay
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimNearFortWorth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2021 at 11:07pm
So my brother in Upstate NY has been tossing around the idea of trading in his loaded GMC 2500 gasser 4WD and getting another diesel. 2015 GMC just turned 20K on the clock and dealers are now offering what he paid for it new but they want a pretty penny for a Ram or Duramax used with 50 - 100K miles.
We chat often while I'm on the road and I've told him he is crazy to get rid of the GMC gasser as it's still like new but he likes to call and relay conversations he has with dealers.
A while back I asked him to feel these dealers out on what they are going to do with all the 2021 models waiting on chips and what this will do to the regular roll-out date for the 2022's.
Last week he asked a large dealer that question and advised the GM dealer told him that GM had advised just that morning that all 2021 model pickups that eventually get shipped will be registered as 2022 year models.
Something tells me that lawyers will be getting involved with this one, if in-fact true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2021 at 3:40am
Can happen
Very similar to Farm machines and heavy equipment where as stay in producers inventory are not date coded until sold.

My 180d was built in 1973 according to a local dealer owner that still had some reference books, said was not sold until 1975 so is listed as a 1974 which is as convoluted as it can get.

Several older Cat machines I had worked on had date stamps that showed them 2-4 years older than the s/n code reports showed them to be.
Inventory is new until delivered to a customer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2021 at 10:31am
Originally posted by TimNearFortWorth TimNearFortWorth wrote:

So my brother in Upstate NY has been tossing around the idea of trading in his loaded GMC 2500 gasser 4WD and getting another diesel. 2015 GMC just turned 20K on the clock and dealers are now offering what he paid for it new but they want a pretty penny for a Ram or Duramax used with 50 - 100K miles.
We chat often while I'm on the road and I've told him he is crazy to get rid of the GMC gasser as it's still like new but he likes to call and relay conversations he has with dealers.
A while back I asked him to feel these dealers out on what they are going to do with all the 2021 models waiting on chips and what this will do to the regular roll-out date for the 2022's.
Last week he asked a large dealer that question and advised the GM dealer told him that GM had advised just that morning that all 2021 model pickups that eventually get shipped will be registered as 2022 year models.
Something tells me that lawyers will be getting involved with this one, if in-fact true. 
  Probably, but I doubt they will get any traction.   
I am still confident of this;
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Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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A good indicator of the real date can be found by checking the date on the tires.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Bank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2021 at 4:59pm
If they don’t change the VIN that will tell you what year it is. I have a 2017 F-350 that had 2017 window sticker and has a 2018 VIN which tells me it was probably built the last two weeks of production of 2017 before they switched to 2018 production.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pat the Plumber CIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2021 at 9:48pm
I ordered a chevy 2500 hd 4 wd Work truck with a Z71 offroad package Feb 2nd 2021. Dealer told me 10 to 12 weeks. That came and gone. Dealer finally calls and says that the plant sent them an email saying no work trucks (WT) until October and will be 2022 models. He claimed that an upgrade to LT package 2500$ more and truck should get built by August. Time will tell . Was hoping to get new truck before I head out west in late August.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2021 at 5:42am
sounds like 'bait and switch'....
Now IF dealer 'ate' the $2500 upgrade AND the truck DID arrive July(next month...) maybe accept that deal, otherwise,get deposit back, shop elsewhere.
Thing is ,with all the inventory being in a 'computer', they KNOW exactly where all the trucks are ,at least in Canada. There could be 'your truck', one state over, in another color,sitting on a lot for past 3 months........
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