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mhbier 
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Joined: 17 Feb 2015
Location: Montrose, co
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 Topic: starter problems
Posted: 28 Mar 2024 at 11:18am |
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Here I am again. I told my wife I was bored and needed a project so I bought this 1959 D14 with almost new tires and great tin. It was running when I bought it but it looked like it had sat for some time and was running rough but not smoking so I rebuilt the carb and tuned it up with plugs, points, rotor, distributor cap, coil. It had a 12v battery but all indications were that it was a 6v system. When I replaced the battery with an 8v, following someone's advice, it would hardly turn the engine over. (voltage reads 8.54) Someone on this site suggested that I have the starter rebuilt, which I did, and added new 2.0 battery cables. And nothing has changed. It will turn it over once and that is all. I checked the switch and it looks like it is new and appears to work okay. I know, if I replace anything else I will have an almost new tractor! Anybody know what I am missing? These tractors always appear to be simple compared with today's vehicles but this one has me. Oh, and by the way, there was one time some dollars ago that I turned the key and it spun the engine the way it should but not again. I think fondly of that one time sound!
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DrAllis
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Posted: 28 Mar 2024 at 12:53pm |
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Put your ground cable on the starter setscrew and clean that area well for good contact.
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Steve in NJ
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Location: Andover, NJ
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Posted: 28 Mar 2024 at 1:14pm |
If the Starter was rebuilt correctly, I'm wit' the Doc on the ground issue. Always make sure the grounds are always clean and free of rust, paint, and debris especially on the 6V PG systems... Steve@B&B
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 28 Mar 2024 at 1:16pm |
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are you sure its a 6 v starter ? Maybe it was changed over to 12v and needs the bigger battery ?
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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mhbier
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Location: Montrose, co
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Posted: 28 Mar 2024 at 4:51pm |
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I hooked it up to a 12v battery and it turned it over twice and then wouldn't turn it over again. I polished the set screw on my wire wheel and it shines like new and then hooked it to the 8v battery but that made no difference. All I get from the new battery is a loud click. I suppose when I find out what the problem is it will be simple but right now it has me frustrated.
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mhbier
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Posted: 28 Mar 2024 at 4:53pm |
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Maybe should have said that "all I get from the starter is a loud click."
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 28 Mar 2024 at 5:07pm |
OK... 1959, it should be a 12 volt starter.
Is the case smooth or is there a 'tin band cover' at the end of the starter(away for the gear) ?
If NO cover, it is 12 volt.
If there's a cover , it is/was a 6 volt starter. Now it 'might' have been rebuilt to a TRUE 12 volt, but that means windings and armature would have been replaced ($$$ ).
have to ask what 'indications' lead you believe it is 6 volts ?
simple test.. if it has headlights, are they 6 or 12 volts ?
I've had BOTH 6 volt D-14s( 57,58) as well as 12 volt (59) so real curious about yours !
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 28 Mar 2024 at 5:57pm |
Do you have a PUSH SWITCH mounted on the starter... or does it have a Solenoid and KEY? ......... If you have the old PUSH BUTTON SWITCH, you could have burn contacts inside, or not enough Preload on the switch to get the BUTTONS to contact good ? You got a BAD cable, BAD GROUND or BAD contacts somewhere.
Take the cables off the battery and wrap sand paper around your finger and run inside.. Sometimes you get a Black Oxide coating on the clamps--- not necessarily a Green Corrosion..
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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mhbier
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Posted: 28 Mar 2024 at 7:01pm |
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The battery is new and the cable ends are new and the cables are new heavy duty 2.0 wire. I responded to another writer who suggested that it might be a later model 12v. My serial # is 16811 and I read or assumed, I don't know which, that prior to the changes at serial # 19000 it was 6v and after that 12v. I hooked up my jumpers to a 12v battery and the ground to the setscrew ground and it did turn the engine over better but not great. I also have sealed beam headlights but a tin cover on the starter. And it does have a key start.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 28 Mar 2024 at 7:34pm |
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jumper cables might not have good enough clamps to carry the load.. Put the 12v battery in with the NEW CABLES and test that..
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Gary
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Posted: 28 Mar 2024 at 7:38pm |
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mh
You are correct with your Serial Numbers. About 2/3 of the way through the 1959 Model year, at Tractor No. 19001, the electrical system was upgraded to 12 Volt.
G
Any chance the timing might be off, too far advanced ?
Edited by Gary - 28 Mar 2024 at 7:40pm
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mhbier
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Posted: 28 Mar 2024 at 7:53pm |
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Thanks to everyone who helped with my allis d14. My service manual said it was a 6v, the books I read said it was a 6v but jaybmiller said it was a 12v. I installed a 12v battery and it turns over with energy and starts right up. Now I may have to convince my wife that I need another project.
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Les Kerf
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Posted: 28 Mar 2024 at 8:09pm |
 mhbier wrote:
... Now I may have to convince my wife that I need another project. |
Upgrading the remainder of the system to 12 Volts will be a start
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 28 Mar 2024 at 8:26pm |
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what do you have for a battery CHARGING system ?
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 29 Mar 2024 at 6:29am |
Another clue as to what voltage the starter is... count the number of teeth on the gear !!! check online, but pretty sure 6 volt is 11 and 12 volt is 10 teeth. 12v is fewer teeth, ring gear more,so less RPM when starting.
must be a 'science' thing... higher voltage ,motor spins faster, chance gears to spins motor slower ? S@B&B will know.
FWIW , I bought a newly rebuilt 6V starter for Troy, my '57. Added a resistor to drop 12 to 6 for the solenoid power. I also have resistor in the coil power as well.
Edited by jaybmiller - 29 Mar 2024 at 6:58am
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 29 Mar 2024 at 8:13am |
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It takes a given amount of "POWER" to spin the engine.. In electric terms that is "WATTS"..... Watts are Volts x AMPS ... When you DOUBLE the Volts, you need half as many Amps to get the same power..... If you setup the windings in the motor and use DOUBLE the volts (12v), but maybe use 60% of the amps instead of 50%... then you have MORE POWER to the starter and it will spin the motor faster.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Steve in NJ
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Posted: 29 Mar 2024 at 12:28pm |
Just curious, but did anybody bother to look and see if there is a tag on the Starter and what the number is? Just because you installed a 12V Battery and in rips the engine right over, you still could have a 6V Starter with 12V's running through the field coils making it violent and spinning the engine right over. If that's the case, you'll soon find broken parts or a bent drive. If the Starter was converted over to 12V's, some rebuilders (like myself) will stamp "12V" or "12 Volt" into the case near the ID tag. In most cases when I convert a Starter from 6-12V's I usually install a Starter Solenoid as well to complete the package and get away from the old mechanical switch... Steve@B&B
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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mhbier
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Posted: 01 Apr 2024 at 10:15am |
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According to the service manual, serial # and heavy battery cables I assumed it was 6v even though it came with a 12v battery. So, I had the starter rebuilt and a new 8v battery and new 6v coil. And now it wouldn't turn over. Then at the advice of jaybmiller I put in a 12v battery and it works but now you remind me of the problem. Do I need to replace battery cables, replace coil, and have starter rebuilt or can I use resistors at starter and coil as suggested by another reader? Sure do appreciate your help.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 01 Apr 2024 at 12:55pm |
the starter, 6 or 12 volt will work fine on a 12v system.... YES, if it was a 6v starter, it is getting PUSHED HARDER on 12v... But your starter is NEW and there are THOUSANDS of tractors with 6v starters running on 12 v... It does work.
With a 12 v battery, you should have a 12v coil.. Dont install an "in line resistor"... Better to have a 12v coil with "internal resistor"... not really a resistor, but wound to act as such.
There is no such thing as an inline resistor for the starter motor.. battery cables can never be "TOO BIG".... if you got big ones, thats great, even on 12v.
Edited by steve(ill) - 01 Apr 2024 at 12:56pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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mhbier
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Posted: 01 Apr 2024 at 3:00pm |
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Sure do appreciate your help. Thanks
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