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I've been talking with Nelson Muffler Co....
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Mikez View Drop Down
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Joined: 16 Jan 2013
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Points: 8156 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2020 at 11:00pm
Our early 17 has an oval muffler. I'll ask dad if gramp cut the hole or who did. Guess the governor went screwy and over revved and broke crank. Both my gramp and great uncle aren't with us anymore so I can't ask how it exactly happened. It was back when allis was still, and gramp got a new engine from allis which made it a latter exhaust manifold.
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Points: 19590 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2020 at 8:53pm
The oval muffler was quieter than any round muffler with minimal to zero power loss. If you ran an oval muffler 8 hrs on a disc or a plow, you appreciated the benefit over the round muffler.
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I'd prolly make a good template, and use a sheet metal nibbler, them hoods is right thick...Wink
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Torch
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Points: 5391 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FREEDGUY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2020 at 7:05pm
I wouldn't. Would be like the guys blasting 10 inch holes in their diesel pick-up truck beds behind the cab to I "guess" look cool. Again, JMO. I must admit though, what is "wrong" with the available round muffler ??
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Then, how would you cut an oval hole into a D-17 hood ??
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Points: 5391 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FREEDGUY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2020 at 6:44pm
Originally posted by JayIN JayIN wrote:

Sabre saw with a metal blade.
 
That sounds a little barbaric IMO Cry . A little like a square peg into a round hole ??
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Points: 19590 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2020 at 6:23pm
A true series 1 uses the same muffler as a WD45, so there is no pipe on the exhaust manifold for the oval muffler to slide on to. A true series 2 does have a pipe and the oval hole in the hood is all it should take. The oval muffler inlet is "on-center" so the marking out of the oval hole is easy.
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Sabre saw with a metal blade.
sometimes I walk out to my shop and look around and think "Who's the idiot that owns this place?"
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How difficult would it be to convert the sheet metal on a Series I and II D-17, to accept the oval muffler used on Series III & IV?   
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THE NELSON MUFFLERS ARE COMING!!!

I decided to go with mufflers for the late D17 gas tractors ser#42000+. These are the original style with offset outlet. The 3rd pic in JC(WI)'s post on the first page shows what these mufflers will look like. Dr Allis's post above states the dimensions. And, wait it gets better! My estimated price above was $200 per muffler, but these will be only $157 per muffler!!!!!!! :) I will post an add in the classifieds with more details for those who want these for their D17 gassers.

I would like to thank those who responded and voiced their opinions. Getting that input helped me to decide in what direction I will go with these mufflers. This run will be the D17 oval gas muffler only. If this goes well, I would like to order another Nelson muffler run for a different model tractor, perhaps the D15 or D17 diesel muffler or the 170/175 gas muffler (which is slightly different than this D17 one). Please give me your feedback on which Nelson muffler I should try next!
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 19590 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2019 at 5:34pm
I measured the D-17 S-4 I grew up on, and it is the same 18 inch oval body as a 180/185. The inlet is 2 1/2" tall and 2 inch O.D. and the offset outlet is 7 inches tall and 1 1/2" I.D. or 1 5/8" O.D. , which makes overall height 27.5 inches.

Edited by DrAllis - 08 Dec 2019 at 9:16pm
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That is a 180/185 muffler.
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Nelson 45 is straight through...at least mine is

Edited by SteveM C/IL - 07 Dec 2019 at 7:42pm
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Points: 33660 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC-WI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2019 at 7:17pm
Alex, is that muffler for the WD45/D17 straight thru and blocked/baffled? Just wondering because I have seen them both ways just don't remember what brands they were.
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Originally posted by DrAllis DrAllis wrote:

I've got some dimensions from a 180/185 OEM muffler. Total overall height is 36 inches. A 15 inch tailpipe, a 3 inch inlet pipe and an 18 inch main body. The outlet pipe is 2 1/4" I.D. and the inlet pipe is 2 3/8" I.D.   I'll try and get a D-17 series 4 muffler measurement tomorrow. I do know for sure that the tailpipe on the S-3 and S-4 is smaller in diameter than the 170-175. I think it's 1 7/8" while the 170-175 are 2 inches.


Thanks for getting some original measurements Dr! I will add that to my notes! From my research I believe the original D17 outlet pipe is 7.75" long and has an O.D. of 1 5/8". The original 170/175 gas mufflers outlet pipe is 15 3/8" long and has an O.D of 1 7/8" (Thank you GreenOrange for 170 specs). Will wait to see if your measurements confirm the late D17 gas muffler sizes.

I don't have any D17d/D19 specs so if someone has those I will be interested to hear them. Would be awesome if D15d/D17d and D19gas/diesel were the same or similar, I could combine those into the same run of 100.
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Originally posted by Clay Clay wrote:

Price of the round Nelson mufflers for a D-17?


The WD45 gas & diesel and early D17 Nelson mufflers are still available. This muffler (pn 229531) fits WD45 gas/diesel tractors and D17 gas tractor up to serial #24001. I sell this muffler for $135 + shipping. Like Pat said another member Rick Corder has them also. Rick is in Missouri, I am in Wisconsin, so Rick would be closer to you in KS.

edit-added pic



Edited by Alex09(WI) - 07 Dec 2019 at 5:00pm
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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I've got some dimensions from a 180/185 OEM muffler. Total overall height is 36 inches. A 15 inch tailpipe, a 3 inch inlet pipe and an 18 inch main body. The outlet pipe is 2 1/4" I.D. and the inlet pipe is 2 3/8" I.D.   I'll try and get a D-17 series 4 muffler measurement tomorrow. I do know for sure that the tailpipe on the S-3 and S-4 is smaller in diameter than the 170-175. I think it's 1 7/8" while the 170-175 are 2 inches.
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Price of the round Nelson mufflers for a D-17?
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Originally posted by Farrell(Utah) Farrell(Utah) wrote:

If these become available, I would like two that fit a WD45.

I believe the earlier round Nelson mufflers are available now . It is the oval ones that are not being produced by Nelson. I bought one from Rick Corder,Mo. a few years ago
You only need to know 3 things to be a plumber;Crap rolls down hill,Hot is on the left and Don't bite your fingernails

1964 D-17 SIV 3 Pt.WF,1964 D-15 Ser II 3pt.WF ,1960 D-17 SI NF,1956 WD 45 WF.
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Points: 8033 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2019 at 10:49am
That muffler won't fit if you do a"restoration"
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If these become available, I would like two that fit a WD45.
A(1937), 2 G, 2 WD45 diesels, 6 WD45 gas, UC, 2 WD, D17 gas, WF, Farmall 400, D12, Kubota B3030
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I have a long way to go but that would help in this restoration project.
I am interested. Don't know where dad got this muffler. Too young to remember the details.
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I would be very interested in a Nelson muffler for my gas D-17 IV.

Edited by WF owner - 06 Dec 2019 at 7:21pm
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As far as D17 gassers go, i distinctly remember the sound of the original factory Nelson oval with the offset outlet. The sound of the Stanley's with center outlet is nothing special and one can be picked up at most fleet supply stores for 60 bucks. I think the offset had something to do with the Nelson sound, maybe because the exhaust couldn't just flow straight up and out. Maybe I'm crazy but I'm sticking to this theory.
'49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2
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Originally posted by Alex09(WI) Alex09(WI) wrote:

Originally posted by Tracy Martin TN Tracy Martin TN wrote:


Alex, if you are going to the trouble of having them made, I would get correct ones done. Might team up with several suppliers to get the quantity up to feasible numbers. Dies are not normally easily changed in those increments. If Nelson has the dies, get the correct ones.It will pay out in the long run.  JMHO Tracy


Thanks Tracy- So you are saying I should consider getting a run of 100 mufflers for every different application? like 100 of late D17/170/175 gas, 100 of D15 series II gas, 100 of D15/D17 Diesel, 100 of 180/185, 100 of D19, and 100 of 170/175 diesel.

In a perfect world that would work. Of course the Nelson Muffler Co. would have to have the tooling/dies for these also. But if they did have the tooling, I can see this happening one of 3 ways:
a)   I get enough preorders, like 70-75 of each style muffler, and then have Nelson make a run of 100 in each design. And if I can't get the 70-75 orders, then contact some parts suppliers if they would buy some?
b)   I take each style muffler one at a time. First do the late D17/170/175 gas style (seems to be the most popular), get the orders, pay for the 100 mufflers, and deliver the orders. Then do the next style D15/D17 diesel for example. And don't do my current "modify the inlet/outlet to application" style of current thinking

But to think I can sell 70-75 of each style muffler might be pushing it. That would be 600 mufflers at once, unless I did one style at a time. And even then, the odd ones like D15 series 2 gas, and D19- My personal opinion is I don't think I could get 75 orders for those specific mufflers, which means only the more popular mufflers would go through I would kind of like to give choice "b" a try though. That would save the extra dicking around cost of modifing the inlet/outlet pipes.
[/QUOTE] Alex, what I meant was call around to others that sell them and pool your resources. I understand you can't sell that many by yourself. But if you, Steiner , DJ'S and others could easily. Purest won't buy it if it is not pure, others won't buy it if it cost as much as pure! HTH Tracy
No greater gift than healthy grandkids!
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I've never seen any series 3 or 4 D-17 gas with a Nelson centered outlet muffler in real life. There may have been some pictures with them, but remember prototype pics don't  always mean that is what production was. Some Nebraska Test pics could be used to verify. I looked at an S-3 last spring that only had 5,000 hrs on it with an original Nelson muffler and it was offset. Also, if there was an early run of S-3 D-17 gassers with a center outlet, they were soon superceded by a replacement muffler that was offset. There was never a One-Seventy or 175 gasser with a centered outlet.

Edited by DrAllis - 06 Dec 2019 at 8:01am
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Alex, From various pieces of literature, I see BOTH the offset and center mufflers used on the D17 IV, 170 and the 175, both gas and diesel... and most of them had center pipes in the pics...
 So... center pipes would be just as correct as the offset pipes... just the fact I know our 170 gas came with offset to the rear
  Guess I would find out what dies/tooling Nelson has left and figure it from there.
 As for the 180/185, All pictures in literatures I seen were offset, gas and diesel..
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Alex I would try and talk with a few vendors on here and try and get some input on demand . I would think if they were correct , high quality , and sounded good they would sell like hot cakes .Oval NOS Nelson mufflers at the Missouri Swap Meets do not last long , any make or model.
You only need to know 3 things to be a plumber;Crap rolls down hill,Hot is on the left and Don't bite your fingernails

1964 D-17 SIV 3 Pt.WF,1964 D-15 Ser II 3pt.WF ,1960 D-17 SI NF,1956 WD 45 WF.
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So to summarize what I have observed as the consensus here:
1)  If the original muffler had an offset, only new mufflers with the offset would be worth getting made.
2)  If the original muffler did not have an offset, it would still be worth getting made because it outlasts the Stanley and has the "Nelson- Music to the ear" sound

 example: Nobody would buy a new Nelson for there D17 series IV gas if it has a centered exhaust outlet, even if it sounded like a Nelson


Edited by Alex09(WI) - 05 Dec 2019 at 8:22pm
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