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Lonn 
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Location: Назарово,Russia
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 Posted: 16 Jan 2019 at 2:17pm |
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No kidding!
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Tbone95
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Location: Michigan
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Posted: 16 Jan 2019 at 2:04pm |
 brandon190 wrote:
"long time listener, first time caller"Sorry to butt in but I have an opinion. Love the forum but this is the first time I posted BC I have a little experience with this. Dig the 190xt, got two. dad bought a 8070 in the 90's W 21XX . Modern cab, great layout. Now, avert all who do not want to be offended. Ran hot, and not in the red, but boiling over. Wouldn't start on a block heater if It got around freezing. Had 170hp @ 2300rpm, wouldn't pull itself up a hill under 1900. Rebuilt pump, new injectors. Resleeved. New belts, water pump, boiled radiator. Had head done. Timed. Retimed. Had pump sent to a different shop. Retimed. New cam. new turbo. electric fans. advanced timing. retarded timing. Finally dad made a call, and 15k and the 8070 got I'm a 4455 Deere. Outside of diehard allis fans, I have never heard anything good about the 426. Rods are too small. Google allis 426, stay away from the allis forums and you will get your answer. Have at me guys. |
Probably should have just kept listening.
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Ron(AB)
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Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Location: Alberta
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Posted: 16 Jan 2019 at 1:27pm |
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Shieldsix13,
What about the oil cooler? Did you clean it out on the overheating tractors?
I've had the experience of cleaning it and making a difference cooling a tractor.
We really would like to help. You can tell by how many people have responded and viewed the post.
I have (4) 426 engines on my farm. Some are better than others, typically the lower the hours the better they are. But there is mods like putting higher compression pistons and different piston rings with less end gap to improve starting.
There must be a solution because not all tractors/engines have the problem.
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shieldslx13
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Joined: 14 Jan 2019
Location: Kentucky
Points: 27
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Posted: 16 Jan 2019 at 12:41pm |
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Is there anyone on the forum with a phone number that I can talk to directly, with experience building these tractors? I have rebuilt more diesels than I can count, all successfully. I'm not being ungrateful in anyway but by overheat I mean boiling over, and a clean air filter and radiator was something that was done right off the bat. I can make my 6.5 diesel pull with a cummins, and I cant seem to make these work. A ph # would be beneficial.
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shieldslx13
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Location: Kentucky
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Posted: 16 Jan 2019 at 11:51am |
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I think you are mistaking this for a JD forum.
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brandon190
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Joined: 16 Jan 2019
Location: NY
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Posted: 16 Jan 2019 at 11:37am |
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"long time listener, first time caller"Sorry to butt in but I have an opinion. Love the forum but this is the first time I posted BC I have a little experience with this. Dig the 190xt, got two. dad bought a 8070 in the 90's W 21XX . Modern cab, great layout. Now, avert all who do not want to be offended. Ran hot, and not in the red, but boiling over. Wouldn't start on a block heater if It got around freezing. Had 170hp @ 2300rpm, wouldn't pull itself up a hill under 1900. Rebuilt pump, new injectors. Resleeved. New belts, water pump, boiled radiator. Had head done. Timed. Retimed. Had pump sent to a different shop. Retimed. New cam. new turbo. electric fans. advanced timing. retarded timing. Finally dad made a call, and 15k and the 8070 got I'm a 4455 Deere. Outside of diehard allis fans, I have never heard anything good about the 426. Rods are too small. Google allis 426, stay away from the allis forums and you will get your answer. Have at me guys.
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Lonn
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Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Location: Назарово,Russia
Points: 29773
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Posted: 16 Jan 2019 at 7:21am |
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What does the standard radiator, recored, cost compared to recoring and adding an additional of tubes?
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WF owner
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Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Bombay NY
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Posted: 16 Jan 2019 at 7:18am |
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A radiator recored and an additional row of tubes for $150 ? I would like the name of the radiator shop that would do that !!!
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DrAllis
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Posted: 16 Jan 2019 at 7:13am |
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An Engineer is caught between the Customer (who wants more for less $$$) and the Sales Dept (who wants things as cheap as possible to make more sales). If every tractor was equipped with a factory built oversized radiator and cooling system, Customers would always buy one size smaller than they need and "turn it up", knowing full well that the cooling system wasn't going to be an issue. Kind of like selling a lot of N-5's (and turning them up) versus selling N-6's. Customer could save several thousand dollars doing it that way.
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tornado8070
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Posted: 16 Jan 2019 at 7:05am |
Calvin Schmidt wrote:
I have a "On Highway " spec engine in my 220. It has a Simms injector pump and the same injectors tips as a 7080. I added an intercooler and the large waterpump which is necessary to get proper circulation through the intercooler. This required moving the lower rad inlet to the left side and in the process the rad was recored with 7 - 1/2" rows. With the stock pump setting, it dynos 190 hp. I can pull a 24' AC 1400 cultivator all day in 6th gear with no overheating problems |
Finally someone did which in my opinion is the most gained aid in keeping them cool. Recoring and adding the 7th row of tubes. A no brainer for $150 to add 15% cooling compacity.
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09’ DT205B, 08’ DT220A, 83' 8070 MFWD, 83’ 8070 85’ 8050 MFWD, 83' 8030, 82' 8010, 85’ 6080 MFWD, 84’ 6080, 79' 7020, 85' M3 RWD, 85' 920 diesel,AC C-50 forklift.
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Lonn
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Posted: 16 Jan 2019 at 6:48am |
shieldslx13 wrote:
Thanks for all the replies.... I hope I offended no one!!!!! I love Allis, I really do. To let me also post my case... My brother has an amazing maintenance program. Rot T synthetic every 100 hrs, along with new filters all the way around. While we have rebuilt pumps and injectors on our own, we do not feel confidant in doing so. Pop pressure is right on the injectors compression is good. I do understand the foam, although I didn't until I finally stuffed some t-shirts between the radiator and frame on the 220. I have since put on the real. I am asking questions because I am confidant that these can run good. My suspicion is the injector pumps. Also, when I ordered a cam for my 220, It was the same PN as the 301. The reason he is wanting an IH is the indestructability and power of his 1466 combines. I was honestly hoping someone would tell me "oh I had those exact same problems and it was ....." I was thinking about getting an injector pump and injectors off a good running 426 and seeing if that helps. And we have also done the radiators. My Dad, before he died, bought an Oliver (Moline) 1355 with the 585 and that thing is an absolute MONSTER. |
If you can give it as good as you took it then you'll be alright! 
Edited by Lonn - 16 Jan 2019 at 7:19am
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Calvin Schmidt
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario Can.
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Posted: 16 Jan 2019 at 6:26am |
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I have a "On Highway " spec engine in my 220. It has a Simms injector pump and the same injectors tips as a 7080. I added an intercooler and the large waterpump which is necessary to get proper circulation through the intercooler. This required moving the lower rad inlet to the left side and in the process the rad was recored with 7 - 1/2" rows. With the stock pump setting, it dynos 190 hp. I can pull a 24' AC 1400 cultivator all day in 6th gear with no overheating problems
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Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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SteveM C/IL
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Shelbyville IL
Points: 8035
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Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 6:03pm |
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My 220 and 8070 are both turned up and worked hard.Neither have heating issues.
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BKarpel
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Joined: 27 Apr 2012
Location: Collinsville IL
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Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 10:35am |
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We must have got lucky with our 1586. Its a good reliable tractor. Pulled a 9 shank disc chisel, 22 foot finish tool now mainly plants and grain cart. We did have to replace the ta,injector pump, and 2 push rods. It has 6000 hours and was worked hard before us. The owner was trying to out run a neighbor with a 2+2. I would send the injectors, pump, and turbo out to be checked out. Sound like the 220 bottom end is good but did any one do a valve job? Dont waste your time swapping fuel system. I was always told if you wearing a coat a Allis needs preheater held in.
Edited by BKarpel - 15 Jan 2019 at 10:36am
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allisrutledge
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Joined: 30 Mar 2010
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Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 10:33am |
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I have a 210 that runs cool at any load and I think it is set at or near original specs. I'd like to have 175 horse power but it does what I ask and runs great.
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Allis Chalmers still exist in my mind and barns
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shieldslx13
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Location: Kentucky
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Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 10:16am |
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And for goodness sakes I have an Allis Christmas stocking!
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shieldslx13
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Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 10:14am |
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And I take great offense to the Farmall guy quote, LOL.
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shieldslx13
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Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 10:05am |
Thanks for all the replies.... I hope I offended no one!!!!! I love Allis, I really do. To let me also post my case... My brother has an amazing maintenance program. Rot T synthetic every 100 hrs, along with new filters all the way around. While we have rebuilt pumps and injectors on our own, we do not feel confidant in doing so. Pop pressure is right on the injectors compression is good. I do understand the foam, although I didn't until I finally stuffed some t-shirts between the radiator and frame on the 220. I have since put on the real. I am asking questions because I am confidant that these can run good. My suspicion is the injector pumps. Also, when I ordered a cam for my 220, It was the same PN as the 301. The reason he is wanting an IH is the indestructability and power of his 1466 combines. I was honestly hoping someone would tell me "oh I had those exact same problems and it was ....." I was thinking about getting an injector pump and injectors off a good running 426 and seeing if that helps. And we have also done the radiators. My Dad, before he died, bought an Oliver (Moline) 1355 with the 585 and that thing is an absolute MONSTER.
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wekracer
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Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 10:04am |
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We have an 8050 and 8070 both power shift. The 50 was starting to heat about 6 years ago. Pulled the radiator and had it rodded and put new foam in. Has stayed cool ever since. The 8070 will heat up if it’s 90 outside and you work it hard. 5th low is 6.2 mph. If I drop to 4th it stays cool. i Probably need to pull that radiator too and have it done.
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Alex09(WI)
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Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Location: CECIL WI
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Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 10:02am |
Welcome to the forum! Sorry to hear about your dad's passing.
Don't listen to the naysayers on the forum, stick with Allis-Chalmers! I would suggest writing up a checklist with the potential causes mentioned above. Then choose one tractor to start on. Take one tractor at a time and concentrate on one problem at a time. Say the 7060. Take the hard starting problem first. My friend owns a 7060 and whenever it gets below 32, he plugs it in for a couple hours and it pops right off. Now try that if you have a working block heater and see if it starts good then. If you dont want to plug your tractors in, you need to find the reason they don't start well and fix it. The 426 needs 3 things to start good: Air, Heat from compression, and Fuel at the right time.
1. check the air filter to make sure it is not plugged. Then blow it out good with your air compressor to make sure it is clean.
2. a. Find out how many hours are on the tractor since its last overhaul. If its more than roughly 4000, you prolly have some wear on the pistons, rings and sleeves, causing you to no longer have perfect compression, resulting in less heat to ignite the fuel.
b. Check the battery cables to make sure the clamp ends are free from corrosion and the cables themselves are not frayed. Replace as nessessary. Good cables are important to transfer the battery power to the starter without loosing voltage/amperage.
c. Take the starter in to a repair shop to have it checked. The brushes and bushings are prolly wore. If its worn, have it rebuilt that way you have a fresh, properly performing starter.
3. Double check the injection pump to confirm the timing is not off. I had a 180 diesel tractor that started very hard and the timing was too far advanced. I retarded it a bit and then it started very easy (like night and day difference)
Once you get the starting issue figured out, go to the overheating issue. Run the tractor up to operating temperature good and hot, then idle the tractor, then check the temperature of the coolant in the radiator with a laser temp gun or stick a thermometer in the top of the radiator. Now compare this reading to what it says on the gauge. You may find that the gauge is reading wrong. If so, replace the gauge and sending unit. If the radiator temp is in fact too high, check the things Dr allis and Tbran suggested above. The little things first and if you are still overheating, take the radiator in to a radiator shop to have it professionally cleaned.
I would suggest installing a boost psi gauge to check what you have for boost at rthe moment.
Try these suggestions and if needed, start a new post with which tractor you are working on and any problems you are having. One problem at a time though please, this post was a lot to think about lol! There are a lot of good knowledgeable people on this forum that are always glad to help another Allis guy keep his Allis's going!! Hopefully we'll help you get your Allis's back in the field and keep the IH's out! Again, welcome to the forum and if you are still reading this, sorry for the above people who told you to switch to IH, that is usually unheard of on this forum...
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KEEPING ALLIS-CHALMERS IN THE FIELDS THROUGH THE 21ST CENTURY
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7060
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Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 9:18am |
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My 7060 has always struggled to stay cool or at least below 100 ambient. In a hot day working it I can’t use all my available horsepower and stay at or below 200 degrees. My tractor is dynoing 190hp though and wasn’t made to keep cool at that horsepower. I took my radiator to a shop and had it rodded cleaned and boiled out, new foam, thermostats, digital temp gauge, and still wasn’t happy. I should have just put a 7080 radiator on with the extra cores. If it’s below 90 degrees outside no problems though. I would wonder with a 220/7030 if the pump has been changed and the radiator is smaller yet.
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Lonn
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Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 9:16am |
Tbone95 wrote:
Well, there's another potential new member who is probably sorry he asked. |
It's just being blunt, maybe too blunt but hopefully he'll relay the message to his brother that he needs a maintenance program. Now if he had said it's just too far to get parts to keep AC on the farm, I can could sympathize. Maybe I'm blunt because I've heard the same argument from a good friend that only runs Allis without ever having anything else and has pretty much a zero maintenance program with all his equipment. It gets old when I haven't had any of these issues at all or if I do I figure out the problem and fix it and the next guy has nothing but trouble and just condemns his equipment without knowing how to maintain a piece of equipment. Maybe it applies to this fellow and maybe it doesn't but he hasn't answered whether or not his brother has a good maintenance program. ..................Maybe I'm just ornery.
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Lonn
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Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 9:08am |
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Not to mention rear end troubles of nearly all high hp IH built tractors from the 66 series on through the 86 series. Look at the front axle of the IH. Now I grease my front axle parts on our 7030 and 7050 and all my tractors EVERY DAY I RUN IT but many don't. If you are not good with maintenance then a 1586 is not the tractor for you. Their front axles suck as does the shifting linkage and PTO linkage and especially when the cab sinks over time, the clutch valve linkage. The TA was already mentioned and yes you can save on it some if you don't abuse it but the TA WILL FAIL at some point because of the sprag clutch. The mechanical diode replacement CaseIH came up with to replace the sprag sucks too. Good luck with that 1586. You're brother will get an education on why maintenance is needed in a quick hurry. Hopefully he'll apply that lesson to the rest of his fleet.
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Tbone95
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Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 8:49am |
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Well, there's another potential new member who is probably sorry he asked.
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 8:03am |
victoryallis wrote:
Betting life won’t be any better running red. Like Doc said the rads maybe dirtier than they appear. |
Especially a 1586! Great engine, but the 3 speed transmission puts you either too slow or too fast for ideal speeds, plus the TA will either be out or going out lmao!
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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DrAllis
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Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 6:22am |
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Yes. IH did that on the late great 5088-5288-5488 and it didn't work all that good. They took in air from the top of the hood and blew it forward thru the radiator inside of a box that made it hard to clean when needed. Imagine chopping corn and having leaves get sucked onto the top of the hood. Enuff said.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 6:02am |
My D-14 and the forklift both tended to run 'warm'. Took the rad out of the D-14, cleaned the rad inside and out and it's been fine ever since. The forklift's a real pain though. Can't get to the rad easy cause someone stuck a 4,000 # hunk of cast iron around it ! It does run a lot cooler when I can see daylight through the fins !! Now my Kubota has air 'reverse flow'. it draws air from operators station and pulls it past engin, through rad and out the front. They claim it keeps rad cleaner. I'm wondering if any of the 'big' tractors do this ?
just some observations... Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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lentsch
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Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 2:39am |
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Thought my 7060 was running hot, sending unit was bad. Easy fix for once!
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WD,D15,190XT,7000,8010x2,7060,8070
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MACK
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Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 9:51pm |
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You cannot see the inside of the radiator unless the top or bottom is removed. Take it to a radiator shop and have top removed then tell us the radiator is clean. MACK
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soggybottomboy
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Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 9:37pm |
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Our 8050 was running a temperature too,so i took the radiator off and when they cleaned it at the radiator shop,it fell apart. Put in a new one and it doesn't even think about running hot,even when you are working it in a 90 degree day.
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