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Tillage depth- what is best?

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Don(MI) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don(MI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Tillage depth- what is best?
    Posted: Yesterday at 7:50am
Been around moldboard plows for awhile, but never understood Disc plows.

Thinking only about soil health and the organic matter toward the top of the soil. . . . Is using a disc plow better for soil health? Do they only cut shallow and just "flip" the soil over lightly?

It looks that way from videos but then again maybe they are like a moldboard plow and you can adjust the depth easy.

Just food for thought here, I don't own a disc plow. But thinking about tillage depth it seems like they might have an advantage? Or not...
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"I got a pig at home in a pen and corn to feed him on, All I need is a pretty little girl to feed him when I'm gone!"
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 9:22am
Plowing depth for me was whatever the tractor could pull without struggling all the time across the field.
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Hubert (Ga)engine7 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hubert (Ga)engine7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 10:03am
I have an Athens two disc plow that goes behind my B and it does a good job of rolling the soil over. Some soil it will handle in second gear but a lot of it is first gear and the front end barely touching the ground. Right now the B is waiting on brakes and an engine rebuild. Like DrAllis says…..whatever the tractor will reasonably pull. 
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DanielW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DanielW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 10:27am
You've asked a very loaded question. Lots to consider there, and you'll get many different opinions. When you say 'soil health', what particular aspects are you considering: Compaction? Maintaining moisture? Keeping organic mater content as high as possible? Reducing spray use for better microbe & micro-nutrient preservation? All important, and unfortunately every tillage method (or lack of) has advantages in one area and disadvantages in another. I don't pretend to be an expert, but here are just a few points to consider:

- Greater depth is better for breaking up compaction, which can have significant results on yield (especially with modern equipment being so large/heavy. It wasn't so much of a concern back in our Grandfathers' time). A deeper tillage pass every now and again also helps bring some of the deeper nutrients and OM from deeper root systems to the surface.

- Moldboard plowing can create a hard pan along the bottom of the share that's bad for compaction in heavier soils.

- Deeper moldboard plowing is the best mechanical weed control you can get. If it allows you to avoid a spray pass, the benefits to soil health are huge. I don't want to sound like a tree-hugging hippy (I'm quite the opposite), but the years from about 1960 to 2000 saw some of the worst practices for soil health and sustainability. Only in recent years are folks are finally realizing there's more to yields and soil sustainability than just your basic NPK credits and organic matter content. Microbe action is huge for soil health and yield, as well as for converting and preserving micronutrients. And pretty much every common pesticide/herbicide out there harms your microbes. Because the last few decades have seen so much ravaging of the soil, these days you hear more and more about different nutrient deficiencies than you did, say, 30 years ago. 

- A disc plow like you're thinking of (or a more modern offset disc) typically won't get quite as deep as a moldboard plow, nor bury the trash quite as effectively. But does do reasonable jobs of both. And often results in a smoother surface. So not as good for weed suppression and may result in more herbicide use being necessary. But it may allow fewer additional tillage operations being necessary, and thus can be beneficial for some other aspects, because of:

-- Every tillage pass does some damage to the organic matter content, and is the equivalent of removing 1/2" to 1" of rain. Obviously you want to keep organic matter content as high as possible. But if you need to dry out your fields, some extra tillage passes can help. But if you have dry growing seasons (especially dry early growing seasons - which we seem to be seeing more and more of) the last thing you want to do is lose that residual moisture. I was a huge fan of my old Dearborn disc plow for this reason: A good happy medium between moldboard plowing and minimal till. It does a reasonable job of burying the trash and weed suppression for many conditions, but also leaves a much smoother field. Often a single pass with a harrow is all that's required after the disc plow. With a moldboard plow, it requires at least two or three additional operations afterwards, which don't do an favours to the OM content or moisture retention. Unfortunately my piddly little disc plow is far too small to use at any kind of a large scale. It's even too small for my pokey little antiquated operation.

- Disc rippers, chisel plows, and more modern one-pass tillage systems typically have deeper penetration and are much better than conventional methods for breaking up compaction. But often quite poor for weed suppression and burying trash.

It's a 'pick your poison' scenario. A good mix of methods is probably the best: And I certainly don't pretend to be an expert.
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Allis dave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 11:20am
I alwasy thought the purpose of disc plows were to be used in very rocky soil
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AC7060IL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC7060IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 11:36am
Don(MI), most every tillage tool has its moment. Kinda like an array of tools in any toolbox.
So in your comment you are more familiar with moldboard plowing? So perhaps that is because it helps your northern colder soils by allowing for quicker warm-up of soil temperatures during spring growing season? Perhaps it also reduces/fractures any upper soil surface compaction(granting your area’s deep winter freezes amend any plow pan compaction created from moldboarding?)? Perhaps it also reduces/controls weed competition versus applying herbicides that may be damaging soil health, etc…, then perhaps it’s a good tool? If what I’ve listed has merit, then your plow seems to be contributing to your soils health. Just observations. No judgements.
Maybe keep using it?

How / what can you do to further help your soil health ~ cover crops.
Easiest? After you fall plow, plant a winter cereal crop (rye,wheat,barley,triticale,etc). Any of these will exhibit root grow throughout the entire winter months, thus feeding soil microbes. Not to mention reducing erosion & capturing abundant soil nutrients & free Tstorm nitrogen from lightning precipitation events.
In the spring, terminate cover crop by choice methods that work for you then plant your regular season crops.
Sorry, I know nothing about disc plows. Point is, use what is familiar to you toward your goal.
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Gary Burnett View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary Burnett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 11:46am
Chisel plow then disk works for me.
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DiyDave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 hours 45 minutes ago at 4:11pm
If you have rocky ground or areas with tree roots extending out, the disc plow is the cat's whiskers.  Also works good in what we used to call Fredric concrete soil type, where you can plow it till about 10 AM, but then it sets like concrete after the sun has been on it for a coupa hours...Wink

Edited by DiyDave - 20 hours 44 minutes ago at 4:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 hours 6 minutes ago at 6:50pm
Deep enough they'll never find the evidence to implicate you is my thinking; but I don't farm, only fix what's broke.
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BillinAlberta View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BillinAlberta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 hours 53 minutes ago at 7:03pm
  The moldboard plow is rare here in western canada. I would say the most used tillage tool is the cultivator or chisel plow .Both terms are used here. 
   A tool that worked very well but has fallen out of favour is the one way discer. You could till and seed with 1 pass and hopefully conserve moisture.
    Keep your stubble up !
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dr p View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr p Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 hours 33 minutes ago at 7:23pm
Think there is a little "tower of babel" going on. A disk plow is like a moldboard plow except instead of a moldboard there is a curved 30 inch disk. If you want to bury heavy trash brush small trees or a body, this is your tool. It runs deep (10 to 12 inches). And it hates rocks. Plow too wet with this and you will destroy all soil structure

A disc tiller is kind of like an offset disc, except there isn't the second gang. My understanding (never seen one or used one ) but they are popular in the west. They just work the top couple of inches of the soil. And rocks are no problem.
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KJCHRIS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KJCHRIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 hours 59 minutes ago at 7:57pm
What I was taught in my area of Iowa, 1965 to 1975.
A plow whether moldboard w 2 to 5' 14" or 16" bottom or the disc type w 3 or 4 26" to 30"disc blades. PLOW Shall be in the ground no more than 8" and no less than 6" all of the time or there'll be hell to pay. 
 I Quit plowing when I went No-Till in mid 80's w a used AC 600 planter. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alberta Phil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 hours 53 minutes ago at 8:03pm
I've got one of those one way disc tillers back in the weeds somewhere.  They are a heavy piece of equipment!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 hours 36 minutes ago at 10:20pm
Only doing corn and beans here. Use a 9 shank Glenco disc chisel w/4" twists after harvest. Almost always 2 passes in spring with 4800 IH field cultivator dragging 5 bar harrow and plant. Some years can get by with one spring pass. This year looks to be one in bean stubble. I really enjoy the snap coupler plows but can cover soooo much more ground with the chisel plow....( and no headlands or dead furrows!)
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Don(MI) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don(MI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5 hours 44 minutes ago at 7:12am
Daniel, I was thinking more along the lines of soil health and microbes, keeping as much organic matter to the top of the soil for maximum health. And trying to relate that to Disc plowing, you said it well and brought up the battle to bury trash also
Galatians 5:22-24

"I got a pig at home in a pen and corn to feed him on, All I need is a pretty little girl to feed him when I'm gone!"
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Don(MI) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don(MI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5 hours 36 minutes ago at 7:20am
Thanks for all the comments I do appreciate each of them!

Just posing the question and no I don't actually farm. I have a small couple plots but just enough to get the d14 or wc out and play with them.

Galatians 5:22-24

"I got a pig at home in a pen and corn to feed him on, All I need is a pretty little girl to feed him when I'm gone!"
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