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New and Improved Vehicles

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Coke-in-MN View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Afton MN
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: New and Improved Vehicles
    Posted: 26 Oct 2025 at 4:41pm
So last year my 2015 Jeep Cherokee died one below Zero day - battery just stoned itself overnight . OR SO I THOUGHT - it seems little signs showed up over a couple years with some features not working in dash . Stop / Start and odd times of warning lights - original battery from 2015 until 2025 - yet battery voltage varied which created problems 
  Other day went to start my 2010 GMC work truck - battery lit dash lights but when turning key nothing . cycled key on and off a few times and it started then died .
 Put charger on it to try to start , no go / Let charge a couple hours at 10 amps / Nothing 
Changed battery with one I had in shop - engine started - died in about 10 seconds 
 Charged battery couple hours - same 10 second run . After charging overnight started next day but dash gauges fluttering on and off and rough running engine .
 Checked output of alternator and was in 13 volt area 
Took battery out of other plow truck (2000 GMC) installed and truck started but dash fluctuated on and off on instruments .
   Seems the Alternator charge rate is set by the ECU now and unit has 4 wires - 2 to regulate and 2 to tell the ECU what to do about rest of charging system .
 Seems if voltage is not high enough ECU shuts down the engine , if battery voltage is low it will not allow alternator output to rise so control engine or dash , radio or other accessories - battery charger with High Amp Start cycle will not overcome ECU .
   So yesterday 2 new batteries as year old ones had internal problem - then after they were installed dash still flickered so new Alternator (160 Amp unit)and it runs , starts and gauges read steady .
Life lesson: If you’re being chased by a lion, you’re on a horse, to the left of you is a giraffe and on the right is a unicorn, what do you do? You stop drinking and get off the carousel.
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DMiller View Drop Down
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 12:04am
This more recent line of Hi-Tech garbage is not our friend. Been seeing this expanding over the last ten to fifteen years.
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DaveKamp View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 5:36am
ECM controlling the alternator's field has become a 'standard' engineering practice, and I won't say it's a 'good' thing...

There's several things they're doing here... FIRST... is that they're increasing idle speed along with field current to push system voltage up when it's low (at idle).

Next thing they're doing, is shedding mechanical load (from engine accessories) to provide more horsepower at the wheels, when you request it.  On WFO they disengage the AC compressor and the alternator field... and while it doesn't seem like much, at the high end of the RPM band, the 15 ft-lbs or so constitutes 15hp or so that could be pushing the wheels... they let the AC pressure drop, and the battery carry the electrical loads for a few moments, and call it 'good'.

As far as all the rest of the goofy antics, a whole lot of wire and connector rot happens, and it doesn't take but a little, particularly in a ground strap, before things act crazy.  With electrical interlock switches everywhere, vehicles do this.

A friend of mine who is an engineer in the industry confirmed my suspicion about this- the inclusion of all this complexity helps accurately determine the point in service life which a consumer goes looking for a new vehicle.  The most powerful competetor to new vehicle sales, is USED VEHICLES... and used vehicle prices are the one thing that severely limits new vehicle prices.  If a consumer is tired of dealing with problems, their propensity to choose a secondhand vehicle will sour, which means they buy (and finance) something new.

Most will identify it as 'planned obsolescence', but it's certainly not a matter of being obsolete, it's simply a matter of making some point intentionally degradable in such a way that the vehicle's service life value drops off rapidly at some point which doesn't result in a safety recall or warranty storm.

Realize, it's a psychological war of attrition, and the companies that do this, are very, very careful to obfuscate HOW they do it.  One of the eariest tools is the "CHECK ENGINE LIGHT".  It was originally introduced because of limited display and processing capacity, but manufacturers found that it was a useful 'tool' for several things... like... having people bring in cars for unnecessary 'scheduled maintainance' visits.  They also used it as a tool to meet certain emmissions requirements (that manufacturers identified as resolvable by 'scheduled maintenance').  As time went on, manufacturers found that by making the CEL light come on for any possible reason (like aging ground wires) that owners would be more willing to simply buy a new car, and 'let the next person deal with it'.
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 6:13am
Another GREAT write up Dave ! Confirms  what I've thought for decades and why 'old; stuff is better than new.Dave does explain WHY so many things, like appliances, are 'use once, buy another'.
Wonder if some smart guy will market a 'kit' of a 1 wire alternator and a 'fudge' connector to FIX, once and for all , the 'bad $1,000 alternators' we see today ?
While I've spent 1/2 my life programming  microcomputers' I see NO good reason to have the ECU control the alternator.it's just 'bad'.

3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Lon(MN) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lon(MN) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 6:33am
I bought a new Chev truck last year. I drove it home off the show room floor. The next day it would not start. An intermittent problem. After a lot of "We can't find the problem" It spent a few days at the dealer, they put a new battery in it. It's been fine for a year.
http://lonsallischalmers.com
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PaulB View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 7:24am
All of the above is why my newest vehicle is a 1989 and I'll never buy anything newer.
  If I were to drive a new vehicle off the lot and then it wouldn't start the next day, it would remain at the dealer after getting towed there, sounds like a LEMON right from the start.
 MY mechanical diesels will get me home if nothing whatsoever in the electrical system is working. I've had to do that a couple of times, but they always get me home. 
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Coke-in-MN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 hours 49 minutes ago at 9:34pm
Well thought the problems were solved  WRONG 
Went to drop off a tire for skid loader 5 miles from here ?
1/4 mile from house gauges started acting weird , tac fluctuated , speedometer from 0 to 50 MPH and then to 30 - then ) back to 40 
 Gas gauge 1/2 tank to empty . 60 PSI oil pressure to 0 and all over between . 
Stepped it down - would not shift up but stepping down hard back shifted - then truck bucked - sped up and then slow down jerking both ways . 
 So made it to tire shop and back but a adventure of where will it stop completely - Seems I am getting to hate anything that doesn't have a distributor and simple carburetor - the GMC has 34,000 miles on it when I bought it in February - ran OK but now it's PROBLEMS ..   
Life lesson: If you’re being chased by a lion, you’re on a horse, to the left of you is a giraffe and on the right is a unicorn, what do you do? You stop drinking and get off the carousel.
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55allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 55allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 hours 38 minutes ago at 9:45pm
Originally posted by Coke-in-MN Coke-in-MN wrote:

Seems I am getting to hate anything that doesn't have a distributor and simple carburetor

That’s my dream truck, with a manual transmission…
Every machine now relies upon AI to even start.
I think it’s quite funny with these big farmers with auto steer, gps, and more when they are are just parked in the field, trying to figure out their stupid computers.
1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45
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DMiller View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 hours 29 minutes ago at 12:54am
Biggest issue of the simpler is the parts are being discontinued to force capitulation.  

My 99 Power Stroke is my most dependable purchase, they have not built any since that do as well.  My old KW sits and awaits use where has a satellite radio for the wife and that drains the batteries so added a 8a automatic trickle charger, another most dependable machine.  The other junk we have here is the 2010 Impala that is giving it up a little more each day, impossible POS to do any base mechanical repair on; and the wife's Exploder, NINE Modules to control all the Bells and Whistles, first one to fail it will go away.  The major failing is CanBUS electrical, the Engineering Marvel that is the bane of existence to all things mechanical, when works is fine, when fails is most often intermittent and elusive, not ever hard fail until it ALL Shuts down.  The Insanity of modern engineering emplaced into electronic devices, HAL of the 21st century(2001 A Space Odessey) in the Flesh.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fjdrill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4 hours 34 minutes ago at 6:49am
Frends daughter has 2024 chevy pickup. While driving all gauges cycled & lights flashed. lost brakes, shift function and emergency brake function all while leaving south Tuscaloosa Al. Luckly only slow rolled thru red light. Stopped vehicle by pulling into an open field. 2 weeks at dealership & no parts replaced and they said it was just a glitch!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4 hours 6 minutes ago at 7:17am
Wife's 2019 Nissan quahqui. drives home parks in driveway, tosses key on kitchen counter, engine still running ( last year has REAL key..) I go out dash lit like a christmas tree. drive it up to garage,runs 'odd'.BTW did I tell you NO key in the ignition ? ).grab key ,can't turn OFF engine,open hod, look for battery, can't SEE one, grab manual, 500 pages NOTHING about battery(Lord help you if you need a boost...), time passes, it 'magically dies', whew.
Hmm.... it was 'about' 15 minutes. Lightbulb comes on... the dealer installed , NISSAN 'remote engine start computer module' kinda failed. 3 trips to dealer ,they never fixed it. I go online find THEIR documentation and see it's CANbus,so look under the dash. what a disaster of an install...so that module couldn't talk to the others, properly and trashed the whole 'network' of 7 computers. The stupidest thing the dealer said , trip3, was 'batteries bad, new one is $420 or we can quik charge it for $140'.
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2 hours 53 minutes ago at 8:30am
My FORD Truck (2013) has a BMS... Battery Management System... There is a "pickup ring" clalmped around the negative battery cable 3 inches from the battery.. It MONITORS the charge and tells the computer to ALLOW the alternator to turn on and off the charge... Mine was acting up and i pulled the plug off the PICKUP and now the alternator works just like it did 30 years ago.. Let the ALTERNATOR decide if it needs to triickle or full charge..

Another problem with it was  if you put a CHARGER on the battery and connected to the ground terminal, the PICKUP would not SEE the charge and that would screw up things when you tried to drive the next day.. You have to put the CHARGER on the ground cable at the ENGINE BLOCK so the charge goes THRU the cable and pickup so it can SEE the charge..


Edited by steve(ill) - 2 hours 52 minutes ago at 8:31am
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2 hours 50 minutes ago at 8:33am
A 2010 GMC truck has a basic version of a battery management system (BMS), but it's referred to by GM as the "Electrical Power Management" (EPM) system. While it lacks the advanced features found in modern electric vehicles, it is still a computer-controlled system that monitors and controls the charging system. 

Features of the 2010 GMC EPM system:
  • Voltage regulation: The EPM uses a sensor on the battery's negative terminal to monitor its state of charge. The system can adjust the alternator's voltage output to optimize the charging process, reducing engine load and improving fuel economy when the battery is sufficiently charged.


Edited by steve(ill) - 2 hours 49 minutes ago at 8:34am
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Les Kerf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2 hours 32 minutes ago at 8:51am
Originally posted by 55allis 55allis wrote:

Originally posted by Coke-in-MN Coke-in-MN wrote:

Seems I am getting to hate anything that doesn't have a distributor and simple carburetor

That’s my dream truck, with a manual transmission…
Every machine now relies upon AI to even start.
I think it’s quite funny with these big farmers with auto steer, gps, and more when they are are just parked in the field, trying to figure out their stupid computers.

Yup Smile
I am a simple man and my needs are simple, I have a 1974 F-350 flatbed with a 300-L6 and 4 speed for my 'heavy' hauling and a 1985 F-150 with the 300-L6 4 speed for my runabout pickup.

These rigs are new enough to have power steering, power brakes, and electronic ignition but not much more than that. Single-barrel carburetors are bonehead simple and reliable. Parts are plentiful.
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1 hour 31 minutes ago at 9:52am
part of this is due to the use of the Internet.. LOTS of info get published these days.. Didnt see that 30 years ago..... US makes 10 MILLION cars and trucks a year and what you see on the internet is the 1000 guys that have PROBLEMS.... Many trucks run for10- 15 years or more and never have a MAJOR problem..

I had a Chubby truck 40 years ago that the fenders started to rot off after 3-4 years.. Common problem, but no well published as there was not a good INTERNET at that time.. Also had a 350 chubby engine we called MIS FIRE because it wore 1 lobe off the 16 lobe cam.... Also seen that more than once..

Not saying that todays trucks are not Too COMPLICATED and TOO much electronics, but more problems are well pubshished theses days... Also i can go out when its ZERO degrees and the truck has been setting for a week and it will probably start in 4-5 revolutions of the motor... That didnt happen 40 years ago with a carburetor and gas that would not atomize.... etc..
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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