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2 landowners, 1 fence |
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Unit3 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 Oct 2009 Location: NC Iowa Points: 5572 |
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Who owns which half?
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2-8070FWA PS/8050PS/7080/7045PS/200/D15-II/2-WD45/WD/3-WC/UC/C
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WF owner ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4889 |
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I remember Dad telling about which half of neighboring landowner fences were ours and which were theirs. But that was many years ago when all the neighbors had cows.
I'm sure it probably varies from state to state, but the law in New York State is that the animal owner is responsible for fencing their animals in. Anything other than that is a gentleman's agreement between neighboring landowners.
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thendrix ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 04 Feb 2013 Location: Fairmount GA Points: 5012 |
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I don't know about the law but pawpaw always tried to agree with the neighbor that they'd both keep up the fence. I don't remember it ever working out that way though.
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"Farming is a business that makes a Las Vegas craps table look like a regular paycheck" Ronald Reagan
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FREEDGUY ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5396 |
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Seems like you own the RIGHT HAND side of the fencerow facing your neighbor's property and vice/versa ?? Just what is done "here"
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 85691 |
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most states say it is a SHARED responsibility to maintain fence, no matter who built it.. SOME states say there is MORE responsibility on one side if you have animals to keep inside the fence.... depends on the state..
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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wjohn ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 19 Jan 2010 Location: KS Points: 2160 |
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Depends on your state laws - there may or may not be one. In some places it's clearly spelled out. In others it's up to the landowners to agree but I think the township or county commissioners can decide in disputes.
Some folks informally use the right hand rule but unless written in a statute, that's not legally binding. Some states also don't require a landowner who doesn't keep livestock on their property to maintain the fence, and all the burden is on the other landowner if they are the only ones keeping livestock in. You will have to look the laws up for your state... Potentially county if there is anywhere that a county has more specific laws?
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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plummerscarin ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 22 Jun 2015 Location: ia Points: 3775 |
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Was told once there was a right hand rule where you were responsible for the right half of the fence as you looked at it. Don't think that applies anymore. Seems now if you have animals to contain and they don't, it is on you. Best to check fence laws where you are
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festus51 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 26 Mar 2017 Location: Osage City, KS Points: 1644 |
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In Ks the right hand rule in effect. But if you own cattle it is your responsiblilty to keep them no matter the fence rights.
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We the unwilling Led by the unqualified Doing the impossible for the Ungrateful
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thendrix ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 04 Feb 2013 Location: Fairmount GA Points: 5012 |
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To me it makes more sense to build your fence inside of your property lines and not on it. That way your fence is on you and if they want a fence they can build their own. Around here there are a lot of center of a creek property lines. Yes it's an easy way to divide land but it basically renders a creek unusable for watering unless you can make a deal where the fence is on one side for half the creek and the other side for the other half. Then there's the argument of who gets the "better half" because it seems the creeks always have a steeper bank on one side
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"Farming is a business that makes a Las Vegas craps table look like a regular paycheck" Ronald Reagan
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200Tom1 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 Jun 2019 Location: Iowa Points: 1232 |
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The law in this state says the landowner is responsible to maintain the right hand side of the fence as you stand there and look at it. If you want to keep the neighbors livestock out of your field it is your responsibility to maintain your side of the fence. I was a township trustee many years and been to several fence viewing meetings, walked a lot of miles looking at fences. To confuse matters some. If Two landowners agree and it is recorded at the county recorders office, you can switch ends of the fence. It will be a permanent situation if this happens. You are still responsable for maintaining your side of the fence, it doesn't matter if you don't have livestock and your neighbor does, you are the responsable party if his livestock gets on your property thru your end of the fence. If you are buying land you should have the real estate agent find out who is responsible for which 1/2 of the fence.
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Lars(wi) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Permian Basin Points: 7745 |
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Throw in the possibility of multiple landowners, along one or more of your boundaries.
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I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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DMiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 33152 |
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Our state is Right Hand rule, HOWEVER only pertains to conventional fence as Four or Five strand barbed, two lays of electric or woven wire. IF a neighbor as we have has animals that can escape those readily they are responsible for anything greater along the full length.
Sheep or hogs can be tough to contain so those fences if already are decent fences up are all theirs. |
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11975 |
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OK, rough night and short on coffee.......I'm trying to visualize the "right hand rule".
![]() Let's say I have a neighbor to the North of me. We have a fence line that runs west to east dividing us. So, if I stand on my property and look at his property, from the mid point of the fence to the east (my right) is my responsibility? Is that what we're saying?
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thendrix ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 04 Feb 2013 Location: Fairmount GA Points: 5012 |
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Yes that's correct. When you're looking at the fence you're facing north. When he is looking at the fence he is facing south. The east is yours and the west is his.
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"Farming is a business that makes a Las Vegas craps table look like a regular paycheck" Ronald Reagan
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11975 |
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Yep. Thanks. ![]() When I first read it, I was visualizing looking lengthwise down the fence, and that really didn't make any sense!
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DMiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 33152 |
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I have three fences that do not relate to RH Rule, Residential to South (ALL ours) Highway to E (again ALL ours) and Woodlot to W all ours UNLESS that owner decides to place livestock on it then that owner would become responsible for Left Half as I look at.
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jaybmiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 24356 |
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gee ,thought I was the only one cornfused about the RH Rule..... very happy some explained it.... !!! |
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Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11975 |
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State highway to the West, livestock in that field, fenced and all ours. County road border to the south, some fence on that, all ours. Hunting camps to the east and north, fence all ours and same neighbors for generations, so never had to look into it. Would have always thought, if only 1 has livestock, it's a no brainer, if shared fence with livestock, then split 50 50 "somehow", but never been involved. Cool, learned something today. Can I go home now?
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Michael V (NM) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: NM Points: 2444 |
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If ya keeping livestock,,,New Mexico is a 'Fence Out' state,,, meaning that it is the landowner responsibility to keep the others "fenced out" of his property,,, so,,, if ya don't have a fence around your place the neighbor can let his cattle run on your place and there's nothing you can do but build a horse high, bull strong, pig tight fence around your place...I know,,,had to deal with this.... now a brand inspector told me the side the wire is on is who owns the fence and responsible for its upkeep. not sure how this rule works, prolly falls back to the "fence out" rule
back in my grandad's day,, some folks were more neighborly and would share the upkeep of a fence.. then there were some,,, you moved 10 feet from the property line and built your own separate fence,,, Grandad went through that too,, and that ruling still stands to this day, there is a no-mans land lane between the properties...
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Kansas99 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 26 Feb 2015 Location: W Kansas Points: 4867 |
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Kansas is a open range state,meaning livestock always have the right of way and when it comes to fences basically around here if you have the livestock then the fence is 100% your responsibility, now if there's livestock on both sides it's usually a gentlemen agreement that they will split the cost of the fence. I have several pastures that border neighbors with cattle and occasionally one will offer to pay for supplies, however my whole life I've just got what I needed and built or fixed the fence, it's just a lot easier than dealing with some cry baby neighbor that thinks this is right or that costs to much, etc, and when I'm done I don't give a crap what they think if they don't like it they could have got off there backside and did it themselves, however I've never heard a peep from any of them. Free 99 is hard to complain about. ![]() Funny story, if you ever go south of Ceda Bluff Res. about 3 1/2 miles south of the dam you'll see a big Jayhawk setting about 1/4 west of the highway. Years ago a now deceased friend of mine had a section of grass and the land that surrounded him was donated to K-State by his aunt when she passed. Anyways his property had 1 mile of shared fence at the south end with K-State and they sent letters out to all the land owners that they adjoined wanting them to pay for half the materials and they would pay all labor. My friend and I talked about it and both agreed that was a hell of a deal and for him it was the last mile of fence out of 4 that he hadn't already replaced in the last 4 years out of his own pocket. So he did nothing planning on agreeing to their terms. Well later that winter my friend after seeing the big steel Indian silhouettes west of Ness City decided he wanted to do something like that in his pasture. I told him well K-State owns the ground south and east of you and a K-State booster owns the ground north of you, so you better put a Jayhawk to represent the KU fans because your surrounded by K-State. Well he loved that idea so we made a 10ft tall 4 ft wide Jayhawk out of 3/16 steel sheet, mounted it on 3 case rear wheel weights and set it up in the pasture and ran power for a night spotlight. Sure looked good, pretty much like it was walking through his pasture. Well wouldn't you know it but about a month later K-State sent a letter to all their neighbors that they would be paying for 100% of all fence costs as they didn't want to upset any neighbors that weren't interested in a new fence. Till he died we would laugh about the coincidence of that letter and our winter project. ![]() Oh and he like me could care less whether your a K-State fan or KU. ![]() |
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"Thank you for your service Joe & the Ho"-----Joseph Stalin
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plummerscarin ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 22 Jun 2015 Location: ia Points: 3775 |
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So what happens in “no mans land”? Seems like a recipe for weeds and such to get out control and the who’s responsible?
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Michael V (NM) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: NM Points: 2444 |
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Around here native grass and drought will pretty much keep weeds at bay...
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plummerscarin ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 22 Jun 2015 Location: ia Points: 3775 |
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Understood |
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WF owner ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4889 |
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I remember, when I was a kid, that we had a neighbor that was notoriously terrible about keeping his side of the fence up. Dad had a heifer that got through the neighbor's fence into the neighbor's pasture, then on to the road where it was struck by a car. Dad's insurance was responsible for the damage to the car.
We immediately built a new fence (insurance agent's recommendation) everywhere the neighbor had built fence and maintained it until we no longer used the pasture.
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Dave76 ![]() Bronze Level Access ![]() Joined: 26 Mar 2015 Location: Hebron Illinois Points: 75 |
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Plummerscarin, I think that is called a Devils lane.
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KJCHRIS ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 21 Dec 2015 Location: WC Iowa Points: 948 |
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In IOWA; You and neighbor meet at middle of fence, what is to your right is yours. That's what I've always been told in W C Iowa. IT's online, look up Iowa Fence Law.
There are exceptions to this; I rented a farm 30 yrs ago that the building sites had mine in left 1/2 and the other on other end of section. You cared for fence closest to your bldgs. This was even written in my lease. They were so legal on it from early 1900's that agreement was recorded at county courthouse recorders office.
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AC 200, CAH, AC185D bareback, AC 180D bareback, D17 III, WF. D17 Blackbar grill, NF. D15 SFW. Case 1175 CAH, Bobcat 543B,
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JohnColo ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 Apr 2020 Location: Niwot, CO Points: 1263 |
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Colorado law says you have to fence out, if you want to keep someone else's livestock on their land. |
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Kansas99 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 26 Feb 2015 Location: W Kansas Points: 4867 |
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That's the opposite of here, as long as you have a fence of sort (one wire hot wire is good enough) if a animal reaches the highway and gets hit the auto insurance has to pay for any damage. Interesting enough just like hitting a deer it's a comp claim and not collision.
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"Thank you for your service Joe & the Ho"-----Joseph Stalin
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DaveKamp ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5971 |
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There's law, and there's common sense. The old adage 'good fences make good neighbors' is often taken as that the presence of a good fence, is what promotes good relationship between adjacent landowners, and in many ways, that is true, however, it assumes that both landowners have need, desire for, and economic capacity to HAVE a fence. Follow that adage far back, and you'll find that it is usually attributed to Scotsman, or anywhere near, and that the landscape is patchworked with hand-lifted stone fences. Fences BEGAN in history as a defensive barrier... nothing more. Man did not develop fence barriers for purpose of unattended livestock, it was a herder's task to attend and protect livestock. The herders had staffs, and if well-off, some trustworthy domesticated canines, to keep predators and thieves at bay. Anyone with enthusiastic animals knows that until a fence gets higher than a man's head, it isn't going to keep ANYTHING with four legs penned-in. It DOES, however, obstruct the sight line of predators, hence, quelling their instinct to attempt infiltration. Modern Fences serve three purposes... first is to keep livestock in, second is to keep predators out, and third, is to keep livestock OUT. If a neighbor is not involved in livestock, and has no concern with ingress of predators or other tresspassers, the investment and maintenance of a fence serves them no benefit. SO... the basic reality is, that if you have a fence, and it is in YOUR interest to have it, but your neighbor has no need, their maintainance obligation can be met simply by them REMOVING their portion... and that kabashes the whole 'fence law' concept. When walking fences for my Grandfather, he NEVER mentioned Iowa Fence Law, although it was certainly extant at that time. Reason why, was not because he had issue with the law, or any dispute with any neighbor, it was because the fence was simply a cost of doing business. As a cattleman, one either ranges and herds, or fence out. In the wide ranges of west Texas, New Mexico, Oklahoma and Kansas... the expanse is very light in terms of foraging density, it takes lots of area for grazers' subsistence... and one can see predators from great distances. Up here, we have lots of rolling hills and valleys, substantially more rain, and fertile dark black soils that produce LOTS of nutrient-rich forage. As a result, grazing areas need not be very large to support very large herds, thus, a fenced perimeter is drastically smaller, and concordantly, less expensive. For my grandfather and my uncle, they maintain the fences, regardless of who's 'responsibility' they may be, simply because it is in their best interest to do so. With respect to fence construction, basically any 'decorative' fence is identified by which side is the 'pretty side'. IF only one side is 'pretty', it faces the neighbor. With respect to fence position, placing it ON the property line, or setting it back, is merely a choice of the installer based on the circumstances. Setting a fence directly ON a property line oftentimes prevents one property owner access to maintain property along the fence line. When this situation occurs, it is best to offset the fence to one side, or the other, of the property line so that the property AND the fence are both accessible for maintenance. My grandfather's property saw plenty of this, as his pastures had great groves of ancient oak trees in some places, deep ditches in others.
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Lars(wi) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Permian Basin Points: 7745 |
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Generally it was accepted that the fence portion that you maintained, was constructed so you could maintain it entirely from standing on your property. If using steel ‘T’ fence post’s you positioned he post’s so you could attach the wire from your side. If using wooden post’s you attached the wire on the post from standing on your property.
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I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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