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bobkyllo 
Orange Level
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: minnesota
Points: 1550
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 Topic: D14 revisited
Posted: 26 Dec 2016 at 9:24pm |
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So I was telling you guys that my d14 is smoking excessively and oil is getting in the water. Well today I tore the head off. Here are my findings. I found the number four cylinder to have a huge build up of carbon. So much that the port in the head was almost plugged. I found excessive carbon on other valves also. I found that the number three cylinder has a scar in the liner almost all the way down. It runs to to bottom. It might hone down but it won't be right. I found nothing alarming with the head gasket.
So here I sit. What do I do folks. This tractor would be nice to have around but it's not really big enough for my operation any more. Plus I've got a tractor around this size already.
Do I part ways with this tractor and cut my loss? What might this be worth? It has new 13.6-28 tires. Very good rims. Wide front. It does run good. Obviously not right now it's torn apart.
Maybe I fix it. It will need rings for sure. What about that scored cylinder? Just ignore it, hone it some, or get a new sleeve?
Where is the oil getting in the water from? I was thinking head gasket but I'll be darned if I could find any thing wrong with the gasket. The freeze plugs look good in the head. Not to say though that there could be a tiny pin hole in one.
Also what about the valves they may clean up but I don't think some will ever be any good. Do any of you guys have some used valves to put in? Or can I buy new single valves to fix the really bad ones. New valves should get new seats correct?
Thanks for all your help guys
Edited by bobkyllo - 26 Dec 2016 at 9:26pm
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Gary
Orange Level Access
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Peterborough,On
Points: 5892
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Posted: 27 Dec 2016 at 4:43am |
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I see in your profile you are an Auto Mechanic.
That said, I don't think I have ever heard of 'Oil getting in the Water' - meaning you have oil getting in the Radiator.
Usually it is water / antifreeze getting in the oil.
In that circumstance one of the causes could be the Head Gasket.
Another cause could be the cylinder liner 'O' rings.
I assume you did a 'leak down pressure test' of the cooling system before you tore it down.
What were the results of that ?
Gary
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DiyDave
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Gambrills, MD
Points: 53589
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Posted: 27 Dec 2016 at 5:57am |
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I'd pull the liners, and check to see if the water jacket is full of crud, too...
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bobkyllo
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: minnesota
Points: 1550
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Posted: 27 Dec 2016 at 7:47am |
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I never bothered with a leak down test because I was always taught that a bad liner o ring would mix water into the oil.
I've definitely got oil into the water.
I've also got oil coming out of the exhaust but that's probably just the bad rings.
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Dek Thorne
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Joined: 19 Jun 2015
Location: Pennsylvania
Points: 114
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Posted: 27 Dec 2016 at 8:36am |
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Personally I would fix it. If you go to sell it as is you will never get the money it's worth out of it.
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DrAllis
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Posted: 27 Dec 2016 at 9:12am |
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If that scar on the cylinder is at the rear or front, it's probably a piston pin that wasn't installed correctly. New pistons and sleeves or sell it as-is.
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Sugarmaker
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Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
Points: 8446
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Posted: 27 Dec 2016 at 9:19am |
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Bob,
If you fix it, it will be more saleable but you may not get your money back on a total engine rebuild. My guess is that it may be wort $1000 to $1500 as is??? If fixed maybe $2500 - $3000???
Depends on how nice the rest of the tractor is too. Your not the first one that this has happened too. Maybe advertise it as is and see what happens?
Pictures may help.
Sounds like to get it running you need to find that oil into water leak, and a new sleeve, and head rework and gasket set.........
I would call Don(MO)!
Regards,
Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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GregLawlerMinn
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Lawler, Mn
Points: 1226
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Posted: 27 Dec 2016 at 11:36am |
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I would double check the frost plugs in the head; if they are corroded/not sealing, oil will seep into the coolant. Most auto stores has them and they are inexpensive.
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What this country needs is more unemployed politicians-and lawyers.
Currently have: 1 D14 and a D15S2.
With new owners: 2Bs,9CAs,1WD,2 D12s,5D14s,3D15S2s, 2D17SIVs,D17D,1D19D;1 Unstyled WC
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steve(ill)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 86411
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Posted: 27 Dec 2016 at 1:02pm |
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bad rings can cause the excess oil usage and burning. Only way to get motor oil into the water jacket is thru the head gasket.... Are you sure its MOTOR OIL, or maybe an addative to the water ? I have bought a single liner or a couple valves on e-bay for cheap and rebuilt a motor that way. New rings / cylinder O-rings / gaskets will do wonders for a motor.... lap the original valves and adjust the bearings with the shim packs.... I little work goes a long way. You don't have to spend $2000. to get a DECENT running motor.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Eric B
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Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Location: British Columbi
Points: 965
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Posted: 27 Dec 2016 at 4:58pm |
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You have reason to suspect a problem with the engine block if you're getting oil in the water. I learned this the hard way. I bought a car with a Chevy in-line six that had oil getting into the coolant...and oh yes the experts told me it has to be a bad head gasket. Taking their wisdom I went ahead and overhauled the engine. All put together and finished it still had the same problem. After enough investigation ...yes it had a crack in the block between the oil pressure gallery into the cooling system. I had to buy another block. I may be prejudiced because I like D14's ... I would keep it and wait for the opportunity on a used engine to be sure, unless you have convincing evidence as to how oil is getting into the coolant in the existing block.
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Currently- WD,WC,3WF's,2 D14's B. Previously- I 600,TL745,200,FL9,FR12,H3,816 LBH. Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal!
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DSeries4
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: 27 Dec 2016 at 9:05pm |
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It's not worth anything with a bad engine. Do a major overhaul on it and put in new sleeves.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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bobkyllo
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: minnesota
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Posted: 28 Dec 2016 at 8:03am |
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So I think I'll fix this tractor. I've got to look the head over well but I know a couple valves are bad. I see from all started Ag Parts and a couple guys here I can buy single new valves pretty reasonable. What am I going to need to do to put them in. I know how to change them. I'm more concerned with getting the faces to be aligned.
Second question. Valve guides are stupid cheap. Are they the same between the exhaust and the intake? Can I pound them in my self or is that also something a shop need to do.
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DrAllis
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Posted: 28 Dec 2016 at 12:31pm |
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You can pound out old valve guides, but new ones should be pressed in with a proper tool.
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Lonn
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Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Location: Назарово,Russia
Points: 29792
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Posted: 28 Dec 2016 at 1:39pm |
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Make sure you get knurled guides or it will be using oil.
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Dan73
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Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Location: United States
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Posted: 28 Dec 2016 at 3:41pm |
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I think I would try to find a running motor and swap it out if you just want to sell it. It would be cheaper. If I wanted to run it I would rebuild it or look for a good 160 gas which would bolt up and give you more power because the d14 probably has the 149.
The way it is you won't get anything unless you part it out and I think that is a very slow hard process.
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jaybmiller
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
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Posted: 28 Dec 2016 at 3:54pm |
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too bad you're not closer... I've got a 'skid engine' needs a new home. The 'buyer' backed out AFTER I removed from D-14 #3. Haven't sold a bolt off of it yet. Oh well.....If I get really,really bored I might put humpty dumpty back together.....
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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