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tbran 
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 Topic: D14 pops out of third gear
Posted: 13 May 2024 at 2:59pm |
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Note: there was a change in 3d gear on the D15 - retro'd to the D14 and CA - ask me how we know... ok, we got a unit in with mismatched gears.. I said impossible - it was but if you run them grinding .....
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victoryallis
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Posted: 13 May 2024 at 11:05am |
 Gary Burnett wrote:
victoryallis wrote:
DSeries4 wrote:
[DIVOnce again, caused by careless operators grinding gears. My 58 D14 has been in the family since 1960 and has never caused any problems.
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If 90% of a series has the same problem it falls back on poor engineering. |
Design or whatever but I have owned a lot of tractors over the years and easily AC tractors have been at least 10X more gear jumpers than all other brands combined.And don't think its because AC operators were especially hard on them.
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Ding ding we have a winner. Go to an Oliver forum do you hear jumping get brought up? Deere? IH? 7 and 8000’s don’t jump. Hmmm Might be because that transmission wasn’t one of Allis’s finer moments. Every manufacturer has achillies heals that transmission was Allis’s.
Edited by victoryallis - 13 May 2024 at 11:06am
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8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 12 May 2024 at 12:36pm |
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Maybe its BOTH ?? If the tractor jumps out of gear and you redo the DETENT to get it to engage further and that FIXES the problem... Then that could be a DESIGN problem... By moving the Detent, you have not stopped the operarator from GRINDING GEARS to engage it ... GRINDING can cause a lot of problems, but maybe there is also a Design problem ?
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Les Kerf
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Posted: 12 May 2024 at 11:58am |
Gary Burnett wrote:
victoryallis wrote:
DSeries4 wrote:
[DIVOnce again, caused by careless operators grinding gears. My 58 D14 has been in the family since 1960 and has never caused any problems.
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If 90% of a series has the same problem it falls back on poor engineering. |
Design or whatever but I have owned a lot of tractors over the years and easily AC tractors have been at least 10X more gear jumpers than all other brands combined.And don't think its because AC operators were especially hard on them.
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I have nowhere near that level of experience, but around here the Allis-Chalmers brand was very rare; International, then Ford, and John Deere were overwhelmingly the leaders. I never heard of any of those tractors having this problem amongst my neighbors, etc. In fact, I never heard of it until I joined this forum a few years ago.
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Straanger
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Posted: 12 May 2024 at 11:44am |
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I don’t know anything about tractors jumping out of gear, but there was a big thread on red power magazine’s forum that the TA was a “wear item” and was meant to be replaced at certain intervals. And therefore it was not a part failure, it was poor maintenance. Not my opinion, just a statement by someone who also has Dr in front of their username. Smart Arse comment of the day, made.
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Gary Burnett
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Posted: 12 May 2024 at 11:36am |
victoryallis wrote:
DSeries4 wrote:
[DIVOnce again, caused by careless operators grinding gears. My 58 D14 has been in the family since 1960 and has never caused any problems.
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If 90% of a series has the same problem it falls back on poor engineering. |
Design or whatever but I have owned a lot of tractors over the years and easily AC tractors have been at least 10X more gear jumpers than all other brands combined.And don't think its because AC operators were especially hard on them.
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Fred in Pa
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Posted: 12 May 2024 at 8:55am |
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I BET Ron White could clear this up .
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He who dies with the most toys is,
nonetheless ,still dead.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 12 May 2024 at 7:59am |
Gary ---it's not the GEAR TEETH that get damaged, but rather the gear cogs and the sliding collar.
WHO said the TEETH are the problem... I posted 3 links before you ever got on.. NONE of them blame the TEETH.....And the CAUSE of his PRESENT PROBLEM could be worn dogs or bad detent. He needs to determine WHICH is CAUSING his PRESENT PROBLEM.. Everyone knows it INITIALLY started by grinding of gears. --------
SLIPPING OUT OF GEAR is not the CAUSE of the problem. Therefore SLIPPING out of gear - jumping out of gear - popping out of gear - is NOT going to cause further damage... REALLY ?
So if the DETENT is bad and you continue to use the tractor and it continues to SLIP OUT OF GEAR... that will not cause FURTHER DAMAGE to the DOGS ??
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I know you got a HARD ON for many of my posts.. You look for any WORD to compalin about.. Just not sure why .
Edited by steve(ill) - 12 May 2024 at 8:16am
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DrAllis
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Posted: 12 May 2024 at 7:19am |
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That's interesting. So by that logic, fluid in rear tires is "poor engineering" too. Tractors require some upkeep and maintenance to keep them whole and productive over the years. Grinding the transmission into gear every time the operator jumps into the seat is an operator problem. Throttling the engine down to a dead idle helps. Shifting into LOW gear first helps even more (no one uses low gear anyway and it is turning slower for less grinding) and then shift from low gear into third gear. Could the engineers have designed a transmission brake to cut down on the gear grinding?? Sure, but at a cost to the tractors retail price. Could the engineers have designed synchronizers into the shifting collar?? Again, they sure could have, but costs again trumped the decision not to. Maybe not quite 90% of Farmalls have the TA fail in their lifetime, but a pretty high number do. Poor engineering?? On that note I might agree altho operator use plays some part in TA life too. Every tractor has its strong and weak points. Learn them and deal with what helps make the service life longer, like don't grind gears. Why would anyone think that was a good idea anyway ??? Poor design gives you the same design parts that failed to begin with to make repairs, knowing the same failure will again happen down the road. Grinding gears is an easy fix...don't do it !!!
Edited by DrAllis - 12 May 2024 at 7:26am
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victoryallis
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Posted: 12 May 2024 at 6:33am |
DSeries4 wrote:
[DIVOnce again, caused by careless operators grinding gears. My 58 D14 has been in the family since 1960 and has never caused any problems.
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If 90% of a series has the same problem it falls back on poor engineering.
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8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
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Gary
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Posted: 12 May 2024 at 6:22am |
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SLIPPING OUT OF GEAR is not the CAUSE of the problem. Therefore SLIPPING out of gear - jumping out of gear - popping out of gear - is NOT going to cause further damage.
AS has been repeatedly stated, it's the grinding INTO gear that CAUSES the problem.
As the DR. pointed out, it's not the GEAR TEETH that get damaged, but rather the gear cogs and the sliding collar.
G
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 11 May 2024 at 9:10pm |
POOO GARY... always picking on a WORD..
Would you prefer JUMPING instead of slip out of gear ?? .. the OP said "POP out of gear" ... If you CONTINUE to let it JUMP OUT OF GEAR or SLIP OUT OF GEAR, you will eventually wear the DOGS on the side of the GEAR or the mating collar.... "IF" you stop BEFORE you get all the wear .. and work on the shaft/ detent, you MAY be able to prevent the INTERNAL WEAR...
the three LINKS i posted at the TOP clearly explain that... but your not interested in that, just WORD PICKING...  
Edited by steve(ill) - 11 May 2024 at 9:15pm
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Gary
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Posted: 11 May 2024 at 8:46pm |
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The CAUSE of the present problem is as Myron also stated, "caused by careless operators grinding gears".
The RESULT of the continuous 'gear grinding' is eventually jumping out of gear.
There are a couple of possible fixes for damaged gear parts.
One is the very expensive replacement of the damaged gear and splined collar.
A much cheaper fix that may work if done properly is having a new 2nd and 3rd Shifter Rod / Shaft made ( Allis # 226027 ) with a relocated detent groove.
I once had a D-15 that was impossible to hold in 3rd gear, even with 2 hands.
Using my fathers experience, I made a new Shaft with a relocated detent groove.
This rework cured the 3rd gear jumping.
The link I provided in my previous post still has a couple of pictures.
One picture is of the worn 'cogs' on the side of the gear.
The other picture is of the worn / damaged sliding Collar.
Steve
I'm curious as to what you are thinking to make this statement:
Running TOO LONG with it slipping will eventually wear out the gears..
What's slipping?
Gary
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DrAllis
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Posted: 11 May 2024 at 8:30pm |
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" Is the problem likely to be with the gear or the shifter lever??" NOT the shifter lever. The shifting dogs on the GEAR and the shifting dog pockets inside the sliding collar. There also can be a worn fork. There can also be loose bearings allowing things to move when they shouldn't move. I have patched many by reworking the shift fork rail detent to shift in a little DEEPER to help compensate for the "grinding it into gear damage". It all boils down to operator abuse and then combine that with normal wear and tear.
Edited by DrAllis - 11 May 2024 at 8:31pm
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 11 May 2024 at 9:19am |
So what is CAUSING his present problem ? Worn DOGS or DETENT ? Which one will FIX his problem ? 
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Gary
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Posted: 11 May 2024 at 4:54am |
The CAUSE of the 'gear jumping' is simple for those of us who have experience in repairing a D-14 or D-15 'Gear Jumper' The CAUSE is grinding the gears when shifting. But it is not actually the Gear Teeth themselves, because the gears are ALWAYS in constant mesh. What wears mostly are the Cogs on the side of the fixed gears that mesh with a sliding collar located between the gears. My dad repaired probably a dozen or more Gear Jumpers by replacing the Transmission Shifter Shaft with a new shaft with a relocated detent groove. See the attached link to "Usual Jumping Out Of 3rd Gear" in the Knowledge Base section. Gary https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/usual-jumping-out-of-3rd-gear_topic115013.html
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ac fleet
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Posted: 10 May 2024 at 11:51pm |
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sounds like all the 190's!! LOL!! its an AC thing ! Tarp strap around the shifter solves the problem!
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DSeries4
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Posted: 09 May 2024 at 4:05pm |
Most likely the gear. The ones I have come across, the shift forks were fine. If you decide to tear apart and fix it, expect to replace the gear, shift collar and shaft bearings at minimum.
Once again, caused by careless operators grinding gears. My 58 D14 has been in the family since 1960 and has never caused any problems.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 09 May 2024 at 1:33pm |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 09 May 2024 at 1:31pm |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 09 May 2024 at 1:29pm |
https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/d14-slips-out-of-gear_topic47924.html
no one can tell you the exact CAUSE of your problem.. If you want to check a few things out, you can narrow down the shift forks from worn out gears... Running TOO LONG with it slipping will eventually wear out the gears..
Edited by steve(ill) - 09 May 2024 at 1:34pm
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steve(MI)
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Posted: 09 May 2024 at 1:22pm |
It has been years since I posted here and I did a search to find any previous posts about this but came up negative.
I have a D-14 that pops out of third gear. I know allis chalmers was notorious about this problem but I have a simple question. Is the problem likely to be with the gear or a worn out shifter lever? Thanks
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