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"why is that there" 1938 wc help needed.

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acwdwcman View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20 Dec 2011 at 4:31pm
well i went out to my shop and took my fenders off the 1938 wc and while i was out there i decided to take off my manifold. well the good news is that i didnt snap any bolts off!. but when i broke te gasket loose some kinda liquid came out of the fist and last whole. 

could this mean i have a cracked head, or could it just be from getting rain down the pipe.
but i was thinking that if it came down the exhaust than it would be in all of the exhaust holes.

it started to blow smoke and there was antifreeze in the oil. but it was drained down to the bottom of the head. so i figured that it was a head gasket. but this could be what whas my problem 

 any help on identifying the problem would be nice

thanks,
james
wd with a freeman model 90 trip loader, wd45, 38 unstylled wc, b 10 garden tractor and 2-14 ac trip plow. grandpa has a 56 wd45. wd. allis chalmers snap coupler blade and 3 bottom snap coupler plow
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Larry(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2011 at 5:00pm
studs go into water jacket.  Just add coolant when you get it back together
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomMN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2011 at 5:02pm
Did the studs come out of the head?  If so I think there are a couple of them that go into holes that are open to the coolant.  You could feel in the holes with a wire and see if they go deeper than you would think is necessary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomMN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2011 at 5:04pm
I gotta type faster. :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acwdwcman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2011 at 6:44pm
no i didnt take out the stud.
wd with a freeman model 90 trip loader, wd45, 38 unstylled wc, b 10 garden tractor and 2-14 ac trip plow. grandpa has a 56 wd45. wd. allis chalmers snap coupler blade and 3 bottom snap coupler plow
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick of HopeIN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2011 at 6:47pm
Someone probably replaced manifold studs with a bolt.   If you had correct studs they could have been left in.
Allis often has coolant or oil passages behind studs in engine and other castings.   Just make sure to use sealant when you put the stud back in.  I have had good luck with a dab of Permatex #2.


Edited by Rick of HopeIN - 20 Dec 2011 at 6:48pm
1951 B, 1937 WC, 1957 D14, -- Thanks and God Bless
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alberta Phil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2011 at 6:59pm
What do you mean by "first and last hole"? Are you talking about the first and last exhaust ports or the stud holes?
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acwdwcman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acwdwcman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2011 at 7:04pm
exhaust hole on each end

Edited by acwdwcman - 20 Dec 2011 at 8:56pm
wd with a freeman model 90 trip loader, wd45, 38 unstylled wc, b 10 garden tractor and 2-14 ac trip plow. grandpa has a 56 wd45. wd. allis chalmers snap coupler blade and 3 bottom snap coupler plow
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acwdwcman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2011 at 9:23pm
bump

wd with a freeman model 90 trip loader, wd45, 38 unstylled wc, b 10 garden tractor and 2-14 ac trip plow. grandpa has a 56 wd45. wd. allis chalmers snap coupler blade and 3 bottom snap coupler plow
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC WD45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2011 at 10:38pm
Sounds like moisture or condensation,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acwdwcman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2011 at 7:27am
im hoping thats all it is
wd with a freeman model 90 trip loader, wd45, 38 unstylled wc, b 10 garden tractor and 2-14 ac trip plow. grandpa has a 56 wd45. wd. allis chalmers snap coupler blade and 3 bottom snap coupler plow
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B26240 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2011 at 7:28am
In your post you said "bolts" if you took bolts out to remove manifold then someone used bolts at some point to replace the original studs. I know the front hole goes into colant passage and rear one may also, If it has studs and you take it to a machine shop for a valve job they will likely remove studs to resurface port area. I use pipe dope the thick stuffyou put on with a brush looks like baby poop and have had no problems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2011 at 7:36am
Originally posted by acwdwcman acwdwcman wrote:

well i went out to my shop and took my fenders off the 1938 wc and while i was out there i decided to take off my manifold. well the good news is that i didnt snap any bolts off!. but when i broke te gasket loose some kinda liquid came out of the fist and last whole. 

could this mean i have a cracked head, or could it just be from getting rain down the pipe.
but i was thinking that if it came down the exhaust than it would be in all of the exhaust holes.

it started to blow smoke and there was antifreeze in the oil. but it was drained down to the bottom of the head. so i figured that it was a head gasket. but this could be what whas my problem 

 any help on identifying the problem would be nice

thanks,
james

There should not be any "bolt" holding the manifold on. All holes have studs and the mainfold slides over the studs. The tapped holes, at least the back one go into the water jacket. If it was drained down you wouldn't get much out of the taped holes.
If you got coolant  out of the exhaust ports, you might have some other problem but the first and easiest thing to check whenever there is coolant in the oil is the core plugs in the top of the head. They have a tendency to rust out, letting coolant leak past and mix with the oil.
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2011 at 8:31am
"Gently'  blow some compressed air in to top of radiator and see which manifold stud holes it comes out.
If not sure hold a small piece of cloth in front of each hole.
 
Gary
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Burgie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2011 at 8:41am
First of all, are you sure it was antifreeze in the oil? If the water came out of the front and rear ports on the manifold,sounds like those valves were closed and the middle 2 cylinders were open and the water went into the cylinders.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acwdwcman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2011 at 8:47am
Originally posted by CTuckerNWIL CTuckerNWIL wrote:

Originally posted by acwdwcman acwdwcman wrote:

well i went out to my shop and took my fenders off the 1938 wc and while i was out there i decided to take off my manifold. well the good news is that i didnt snap any bolts off!. but when i broke te gasket loose some kinda liquid came out of the fist and last whole. 

could this mean i have a cracked head, or could it just be from getting rain down the pipe.
but i was thinking that if it came down the exhaust than it would be in all of the exhaust holes.

it started to blow smoke and there was antifreeze in the oil. but it was drained down to the bottom of the head. so i figured that it was a head gasket. but this could be what whas my problem 

 any help on identifying the problem would be nice

thanks,
james

There should not be any "bolt" holding the manifold on. All holes have studs and the mainfold slides over the studs. The tapped holes, at least the back one go into the water jacket. If it was drained down you wouldn't get much out of the taped holes.
If you got coolant  out of the exhaust ports, you might have some other problem but the first and easiest thing to check whenever there is coolant in the oil is the core plugs in the top of the head. They have a tendency to rust out, letting coolant leak past and mix with the oil.
i took the nuts off the studs and i ment that i didnt brake the stud when i took the nut off of it.

wd with a freeman model 90 trip loader, wd45, 38 unstylled wc, b 10 garden tractor and 2-14 ac trip plow. grandpa has a 56 wd45. wd. allis chalmers snap coupler blade and 3 bottom snap coupler plow
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acwdwcman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2011 at 8:51am
the head is off the tractor.
and im 99.99% sure that it was antifreeze. 
it started smoking over a year ago after i worked it real hard. and when  went to change the oil antifreeze and oil came out. so i figured it was a head gasket. the head has been off for a month or so now. 


Edited by acwdwcman - 21 Dec 2011 at 8:51am
wd with a freeman model 90 trip loader, wd45, 38 unstylled wc, b 10 garden tractor and 2-14 ac trip plow. grandpa has a 56 wd45. wd. allis chalmers snap coupler blade and 3 bottom snap coupler plow
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2011 at 9:36am
So go back out and take a good look at the core plugs in the top of the head. If they are leaking it wouldn't let the coolant level get down to the bottom of the head but would let it down to the height of the bottom of the rocker arm supports.
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick of HopeIN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2011 at 7:50pm
The slant pipe manifold is terrible for collecting rain water if left out in the rain...  Even if you have a can over it.   If it was rusty water it may have been just laying in the manifold.   I modified my 37 exhaust pipe with a flare at the bottom to keep water from running down the pipe and into the joint, not my idea, Don Herbert has done it to several of his.

Edited by Rick of HopeIN - 21 Dec 2011 at 7:52pm
1951 B, 1937 WC, 1957 D14, -- Thanks and God Bless
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acwdwcman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2011 at 8:08pm
yeah that is what i was thinking. but why would it just be on the first and last hole
wd with a freeman model 90 trip loader, wd45, 38 unstylled wc, b 10 garden tractor and 2-14 ac trip plow. grandpa has a 56 wd45. wd. allis chalmers snap coupler blade and 3 bottom snap coupler plow
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick of HopeIN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2011 at 6:37pm
Mine actually filled manifold with water several times when sitting, before i fixed it.   The water could get into cylinders that had valves open.   If I opened the 4 bolt cap from the manifold I could drain the water out before I cranked it and it did not seem to get much in the cylinders.
1951 B, 1937 WC, 1957 D14, -- Thanks and God Bless
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2011 at 8:02pm
Rick, in the bottom center of that angled cap there is supposed to be a small hole. If water gets in, it will drain out before getting in the manifold. Drill that hole out. They get plugged up with carbon and any crap that happens to go through and might even rust shut over time. Some are so plugged, you can't tell there ever was a hole there. I don't know if the new after-market ones have the hole.
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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick of HopeIN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2011 at 7:16pm
I will check for a hole.  Thanks.  Mine is aftermarket, so maybe it did not have one. 
1951 B, 1937 WC, 1957 D14, -- Thanks and God Bless
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