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What year did they build the stronger WD? |
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wide
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Joined: 29 Dec 2018 Location: north iowa Points: 169 |
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Topic: What year did they build the stronger WD?Posted: 12 Jan 2019 at 11:22pm |
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I've been looking for a WD tractor and keep hearing that the gears were cut different and the drive train is stronger after a certain year.
It's been mentioned on here a few times but I haven't been able to find a topic discussing it so I thought I'd ask. What year WD is the strongest? Or what year did they make the change to a better drive train? Did they do this for both the WD and the WD45? Or is it just improved on the stronger WD45? Edited by wide - 12 Jan 2019 at 11:24pm |
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WF owner
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Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 5191 |
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Posted: 13 Jan 2019 at 5:48am |
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The latest built WD's (late 1953 models) and all WD-45's had the tapered gears. It's easy to tell because the tapered gears have a curved shift lever and the straight cut gears have a straight shifter.
No WD-45's had straight cut gears. Likewise, no WD-45's had a straight shifter.
Edited by WF owner - 13 Jan 2019 at 5:50am |
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DougS
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Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Location: Iowa Points: 2490 |
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Posted: 13 Jan 2019 at 5:55am |
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The tapered gears are quieter, but not necessarily stronger. I've never heard of a WD having a gear failure anyway. I wouldn't say it's stronger. The WD-45 has more plates in the hand clutch, but that's to accommodate the extra horsepower.
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B26240
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Joined: 21 Nov 2009 Location: mn Points: 3866 |
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Posted: 13 Jan 2019 at 6:27am |
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At some point after WD45's went into production they made the front axle stronger with the front plate held on by four bolts instead of three.
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Gary Burnett
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Virginia Points: 3200 |
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Posted: 13 Jan 2019 at 6:48am |
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I've always like the earlier transmissions better they way they are geared and never have seen one that will jump out of gear like the later model trans.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 13 Jan 2019 at 6:49am |
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Helical cut gear teeth (teeth cut at an angle) are technically stronger because more than one tooth carries the load, where straight cut spur gear teeth are one at a time. The late WD/WD45 transmission was used in the D-17 tractor inside a different housing. They never would have done that with an old WD transmission. The WC and old WD had essentially the same transmission. The late WD/WD45 and D-17 were essentially the same transmission..
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DougS
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Posted: 13 Jan 2019 at 7:25am |
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More than one tooth caries the load, but the entire tooth does not carry the load, only where the teeth are touching. As far as strength is concerned, it's probably a wash.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 13 Jan 2019 at 7:46am |
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From the internet: For same tooth size (module) and equivalent width, helical gears can handle more load than spur gears because the helical tooth is effectively larger since it is diagonally positioned.
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DougS
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Posted: 13 Jan 2019 at 8:06am |
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Possibly true, but I've never heard of gear failure on either transmission. The side forces on helical gears do contribute to transmissions popping out of gear.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 13 Jan 2019 at 8:07am |
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The WD tractor got the helical gear (curved gearshift) at s/n 127007, which is in the latter half of 1952. So, 19600 WD's were made with this newer transmission (until mid-1953) and then the WD45 was released at s/n 146607.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 13 Jan 2019 at 8:12am |
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Never seen it myself, but have heard of WD's (neighbors) that did a lot of 2nd gear plowing have tooth failures and were also very noisy when in that gear.
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Gary Burnett
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Posted: 13 Jan 2019 at 8:16am |
My dad tore 2nd gear out of our WD45 while plowing.
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Ryan Renko
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Edwardsville, I Points: 2349 |
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Posted: 13 Jan 2019 at 8:37am |
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Our 1950 WD tranny is much noisier than our WD45 is because of the type of gears you are discussing. After listening to it for over 50 years now it is almost music to my ears! Ryan
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IBWD MIke
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Joined: 08 Apr 2012 Location: Newton Ia. Points: 4280 |
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Posted: 13 Jan 2019 at 8:59am |
I agree 100%!! Just love to hear that whine, takes me right back to my childhood. Rode all over the farm on the fender with Grandpa then learned to drive on the WD. Sadly I didn't have time to get it out of the shed last summer. Ran it a couple of times though.
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Brian G. NY
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: 12194 Points: 2278 |
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Posted: 13 Jan 2019 at 9:56am |
Certainly not a bad sound.......reminiscent of the whine of the 30s and 40s Ford two ton trucks as they shifted up through the gears.
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Dusty MI
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Charlotte, Mi Points: 5061 |
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Posted: 13 Jan 2019 at 11:01am |
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My dad bought a late '53 WD that the dealer had used for a demonstrator.
Early on we had trouble with it sticking/locking in gear, first mostly, the dealer fixed it. I took over the farm in the late '50s and then sold every thing at auction in '65. Dusty
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917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express"
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Carl(NWWI)
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Posted: 13 Jan 2019 at 3:43pm |
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I know the 2nd year in one of my WD’s is louder then heck as well. Should really tear it apart one of these days. 2nd or 3rd in my other one is a little noisy too.
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B26240
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Posted: 13 Jan 2019 at 3:53pm |
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I have a WD with straight cut gears that is noisy in 2nd I think becuz it was the gear used for heavy work. WC's don't seem to make that much noise and I think that has to do with the way the WD's are built, the noise resonates in the cast housings and ends up amplified by the fenders. I had one one time that I fixed up for the step son that a priveuse owner had sprayed some type of undercoating on the wheel side of the fenders in an attempt to quiet the gear noise.
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DavidnTenIll
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Joined: 02 Nov 2014 Location: illinois Points: 65 |
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Posted: 13 Jan 2019 at 3:58pm |
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WD45 and late WD helical gear tranny were hardened and ground. Straight spur WD were not hardened and ground. We had a 1950 WD we put a 4.5" stroke crank and D-17 kit. Tried to run heavier implements. 3rd gear got so noisy you didn't want to run it. Also in a standard WD your are actually shifting the gears. In a 45 they are a constant mesh trans and you are shifting a collar and not actually the gear.
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DougS
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Posted: 13 Jan 2019 at 4:14pm |
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The collar that doesn’t stay engaged after it’s been worn.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 13 Jan 2019 at 5:09pm |
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There is no doubt on the helical gear designed transmissions that after they have been "ground into gear" thousands of times, they can start to jump out of gear going downhill with a push behind the tractor. One could call it wear on the transmission components. I'd prefer to call it operator abuse. Why is it usually 3rd gear?? Why is it seldom low gear?? Pretty simple. Third gear gets used much more often than low gear and it is spinning much faster when it gets "ground" on. The short shift lever D-17 is less known for third gear issues than the 170/175 and they are the same transmissions. The difference is the length of the lever that does the grinding. I've often times thought of replacing the rubber shift knob with a steel cocklebur. That should reduce gear grinding some at least !!
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nella(Pa)
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Posted: 13 Jan 2019 at 7:23pm |
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My father bought a new WD when I was 9yrs. old in 1950 and it had a noisy trans from new. Third gear got a knock about 1960 and it had a gauled side on one tooth, had to put in a new third gear and it fixed the problem. It has been waiting about 3 yrs for the restore paint job.
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WD45Diesel57
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Joined: 20 Jul 2010 Location: Varna, Ont. Can Points: 646 |
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Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 7:23am |
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my great grampas 49 WD has a decent whine in 2nd and 3rd, and its very distinct I don't even have to turn around to tell what tractor it is being driven! it was the most used gear for plowing and cultivating, 4th never got used much didn't travel on the road much!
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1-B's, 2-C, 2-CA's,2-WF, 1-WC,1-G, 3-WD's, 2-WD45, 1-RC, 1-D17 Diesel, 1-D14, 2-D15,1-D17 row crop,1-D19 gas and All Crop 40,60,66,72,90 and 100
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TramwayGuy
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Joined: 19 Jan 2010 Location: Northern NY Points: 11858 |
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Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 9:07am |
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The local Allis mechanic told me that the Used 1949 (s/n 28680) WD my dad traded a WC for had a transmission issue before we got it. Replaced a few gears. We never had trouble with it.
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wide
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Joined: 29 Dec 2018 Location: north iowa Points: 169 |
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Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 8:15pm |
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Great forum, thanks for all the info.
So they made the front stronger. Looking for a wide front with 4 bolts in the front plate instead of 3. And a curved shifter handle. |
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DrAllis
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Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 8:23pm |
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The 3-bolt wide front end was built from 1948 thru late 1954. Now, that technically means there were zero WD's that ever had the 4-bolt wide front axle. BUT, someone could have installed a 4-bolt wide front axle underneath a WD. It just happened at some point in time after late 1954. Don't sweat the 3-bolt/4-bolt thing. You can beef up a 3-bolt to work just as well. It may not look OEM, but it will work just fine if done well.
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WF owner
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Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 5191 |
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Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 8:30pm |
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...and there are loads of WD's and WD-45's with regular 3 bolt front ends that are perfect, especially if the tractor never had a loader on it.
I have 3 different WD-45's with the 3 bolt front ends and not a one has a weld or a repair of any kind done on it.
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 5:45pm |
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Too many farmers didn't look after their equipment,they just used it. I got a junk yard 3 bolt front that had been run loose so long it had holes wollowed and bosses worn crooked.I added plates and studs to the outside and made it ok.Should have left that one but wanted one bad.
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wide
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Joined: 29 Dec 2018 Location: north iowa Points: 169 |
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Posted: 17 Jan 2019 at 12:06am |
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I saw a WD wide front on craigslist, with a loader, and the front "axle"was bowed downward.
Where are you folks saying the forth bolts should be,.. or even where the 3 bolts were? Those bolts you see from the front, on the diamond-shaped piece? |
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Lonn
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Posted: 17 Jan 2019 at 7:31am |
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I could be wrong but I think I remember reading way back that though the gears from a WC will swap with a straight gear WD the spurs gears used in a WC are softer than the gears in a spur gear WD and if you swap them around you need to swap them all.
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