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PennsylvaniaNewt 
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 Topic: What is the story
Posted: 17 Jan 2010 at 9:36pm |
What is the deal with Allis Chalmers? I thought it went out of business years ago but to read some of the posts on here it seems that it still does exist in the form of AGCO.
So what is the real story?
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AllisFreak MN
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Posted: 17 Jan 2010 at 9:39pm |
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Prepare for a bombardment of replies to this question.
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'49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2
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Andrew(southernIL)
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Posted: 17 Jan 2010 at 9:49pm |
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Byron WC in SW Wi
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Posted: 18 Jan 2010 at 5:15am |
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Two schools of thought. One, AC died when they rolled the last AC off the assembly line in 85. The second thought is AGCO was AC reborn, after Deutz, because it was formed from former employees, dealers and executives. I spoke with AGCO employees back around 2000, at a show, and a lot of them worked for AC and AGCO for 35 years. Anyway, AGCO brought back orange tractors and it was their pride and joy. Famers, who loved AC, supported them and they grew. Oh, I don't know, about 3-4 years ago they got a new CEO from Europe. He has slowly molded into a European company and dumped all the Allis Heritage along with MM, Oliver and White in favor of Massey Ferguson. So, following this second thought AC died the day Martin Richenhagen took over 3-4 years ago. I follow that and now I'm ticked at AGCO and won't buy any more of their products and prayed yesterday that things would work out so I could get rid of the ones I have cause they make me sick now.
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LionelinKY
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Posted: 18 Jan 2010 at 4:26pm |
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There is one thing which has irked me for a long time now. I read and hear everywhere all the praise for the original AGCO execs for bringing back the orange when they bought out Deutz's interests. I may be wrong and get corrected repeatedly, but aren't these the same AC execs responsible for selling off the company division by division until it was gone. Where do you suppose they got the capital to buy Deutz out? I truly believe enough of it came from what they took from AC while they were there. Why couldn't/didn't they pool their resources earlier to save AC as it was instead of waiting later to only "save" the orange paint?
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Spud
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Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 9:42am |
Byron, I understand you are PO'd with Agco but you can hardly lay the blame for MM and Oliver on Agco. Those brands were phased out in 74/75. That was about 15 years before Agco even existed.
Lionel, they sold the accounts receivable and paid for Agco from that. I don't know why they didn't do it sooner. I imagine it would be a lot more complicated being a part of a conglomerate like AC. Weren't interest rates pretty high at the time too?
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Russ-neia
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Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 9:51am |
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My understanding is the "executives" were American management of Deutz-Allis, who bought out the German (KHD) ownership. Ratliff came over from IHC truck division, and several of the others probably had not reached top management positions (authority) prior to A-C's demise.
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The innovators offer what others will imitate.
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redline
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Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 10:05am |
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I really don't think there was anything shady going on with the purchase and formation of Agco. It is amazing they were able to nurse it back to health in just a few years. Too bad it is all going to go down the tubes now. If Richenhagen thought all the Agco fans would just blindly follow his marching orders and switch to MF, he is in for a big surprise. I hope the board of directors is paying attention, and can get Agco on track before they lose all of their North American business. Massey might keep them afloat in Canada, but in the corn belt they aren't going to sell diddly.
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If it weren't for the last minute, I wouldn't get anything done!
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Byron WC in SW Wi
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Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 10:17am |
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Spud, I don't blame them for MM or Oliver. But, they are dumping their heritage instead of promoting it. I've said, for about a year, that they should make an AGCO brand and paint it different heritage colors. It would cost very little and probably save money as you market only one brand instead of two now. Plus you promote your very viable and wonderful heritage. In my mind they put the death nail in what was left of, in my opinion, Allis so I can't get past that. They didn't kill Oliver/MM, though they did kill White, but their not promoting it either. Wouldn't you love to see a timeline of Oliver accomplishments next to MF? AC would spank MF's behind and Oliver would smoke it!
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Spud
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Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 1:43pm |
I do agree with you about the different colors. If they did like White did with the American series, it would be a win/win for everybody. Common engineering under one name with a variety of colors.
Did they sell any of the American series in your area?
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Byron WC in SW Wi
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Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 2:07pm |
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I only new of one White dealer in our area and it was a ways away. Their an AGCO dealer now but I wouldn't be surprised if they moved on to something else now. So, I've never seen one but those tractors are right up my alley. Made in USA, takes pride in their heritage and decent enough. They say they had old technology in them and that's why they didn't sell but I don't know. Really in the smaller tractors now days you only have syncromesh and hydraulic shuttle otherwise there's not much difference in the last 30 years IMO, (not counting engines or hydrostatic in the really small ones).
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Matt (NEIA)
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Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 2:20pm |
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Ya i pretty much blame AGCO for getting ride of White (which is practicaly Oliver, MM, Cockshutt etc.) i guess though that's what they are doing to Allis Chalmers right now, phasing the orange out like the White paint.
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Hudsonator
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Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 5:10pm |
I'm of the school that says Allis died in 1985. All of this other crap has been smoke and mirrors. AGCO has never made a tractor on par with the original.
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There isn't much a WC can't do.
WD's just do it better.
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redline
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Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 7:25pm |
 Hudsonator wrote:
I'm of the school that says Allis died in 1985. All of this other crap has been smoke and mirrors. AGCO has never made a tractor on par with the original.
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That is probably true, but it was the closest thing we had to hang our hats on. All things considered, they have been doing a respectable job providing parts for the earlier tractors, but I don't know if I would expect that to continue now. The Allis Chalmers name, as far as agriculture is concerned, did die in 1985. Many of the engineers, workers and infrastructure stayed on to become Deutz-Allis. Much of the Deutz-Allis crew continued on with Agco. I can't help but believe that Agco was the heir apparent. Not the same as Allis Chalmers, but closer than we thought we were going to end up with when we first heard of the Deutz involvement. Now the way I see it, I will have to mourn the death of the company all over again.
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If it weren't for the last minute, I wouldn't get anything done!
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Rogers
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Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 8:01pm |
Allis Chalmers was a global manufacturing company diversified in many industries. When Allis Chalmers fell on financially hard times they started to spin off assets trying to stay afloat. One spin off occurred when Allis Chalmers sold off part of its agricultural line to Deutz in 1985 resulting in Deutz Allis. Unrelated to the Allis Chalmers spin off from an Allis Chalmers Corporation standpoint Deutz Allis was later acquired by AGCO in 1990. The end result was the founding of the AGCO Corporation of today.
AGCO has the rights to all of the old Allis Chalmers agricultural line due to its acquisition of Deutz Allis. AGCO uses these rights to continue producing parts for Allis Chalmers tractors through their heritage parts line. AGCO is a completely separate company from Allis Chalmers although it has an intertwined history since it holds rights to the old Allis Chalmers agricultural equipment lines which were spun off in 1985.
Allis Chalmers the once globally diversified giant still exists today. However it is a mere shadow of its former self. Allis Chalmers Energy based in Houston, Texas is all that remains of the former manufacturing giant.
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Think for yourself and be your own expert. Be willing to change your mind; however, willingness to change your mind doesn’t mean that you will. Blindly following any path is the pinnacle of insanity.
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jls
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Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 9:19pm |
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Corperate thought is to do away with local dealers, and thus price comptition. A super dealer tells you "warrenty-HAH, what are you going to do, he's 75 miles away, certainly doesn't attend your church or have to put up with an unhappy customer's flack at the kid's ball game. Not buy another tractor? 60 miles to another dealership-oops same guy owns it! Change color- just 3 chioces and the milage to get parts 60,75, an hour and a half for a shear bolt? Over the barrel & smile or find a team of horses. Agco is just now doing what CIH &JD has already done.
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