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What is a disc harrow? |
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Codger ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Utopia Points: 2198 |
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The subject may sound rudimentary to many but I've not knowingly seen one of these used and am looking for something to pull behind my 11B dozer to break up soil for planting next year? Is this something I should be looking for or something better or more efficient? I don't have a large farm tractor except my White 2-55 that is 2WD. I will be removing a lot of small and medium sized trees later this year including the stumps with the dozer to return the ground to productivity. I'm thinking a hay crop being probably first next year. Thanks,
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11964 |
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Well, it comes down to a regional and vintage thing where some people tag that word on the end of “disc”.
Disc harrow, spring tooth harrow, rolling harrow, spike harrow….so, harrow is a generic term for an implement that works soil. Unless you’re Canadian, then there’s light harrows and heavy harrows, …that work dirt. Anyhow, there’s a tremendous variety of “discs” as there is also a tremendous variety of soil and condition of soil and lay of the land. So to answer your question, maybe. |
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Codger ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Utopia Points: 2198 |
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Thanks. Your response generates as many questions as answers. Basically I'm looking at uprooting and taking down about 350 trees in ground that hasn't been broken in over 90 years we know of. I've seen these things called disc harrows with fluted discs, curvature discs, straight discs, etc. Most I've seen have one set facing in and the next set facing out at opposing angles. I've even seen some with teeth and discs, and spring tines on the same implement. The only "harrows" I've seen used in reality is ones they drag the ball diamonds with at the schools around here. One I'm sure is a spring type, the other a spike type but they are only smoothing with them using the same compact farm tractors they mow with. I can get a relative to drive about 24 miles to do the groundwork as he does farm and has everything needed. The area is not opened up yet and a cabbed tractor will not ingress due to low canopy of the trees. I'm going to bulldoze a road through widening the existing ATV path but really want to rely upon others to the least. Don't mind purchasing something that will be needed routinely and I don't even know if this "harrow" implement is correct for the application. There is about 12 acres to be opened up and I don't want to use a tiller on the back of the tractor for it...... Thanks, |
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Ray54 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Paso Robles, Ca Points: 4659 |
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A very big question that will get you many different options. The brands I am use to using are all gone, but knowing of the Rome company I used the search engine and found the AH series. Depending how big the brush growth is, it might all you need to take all of it out. A HD 11 would be plenty to handle the 10 foot wide model.But I don't know how the power shift transmission would like the constant load. We always used direct drive crawler for pulling tillage equipment.
Even if you have trees that need the blade to push them out a heavy duty offset harrow might be good on the clean up of smaller growth. After the the initial tillage a chisel plow or field cultivator would be good at gathering the small limbs and roots that need to be cleaned up to make it ready harvest hay. Chisel or cultivator are basically the same tool just depth you wish to run them and the size of wood your raking up. Well both typing at the same time. And I missed the part what is it. With trying to leave rocks in the ground and not pulling them up. A 9 inch spaced offset disc is standard tillage tool used most often. So the search engine on the computer is your friend to see the differences. And with the added information of only 12 acres, unless money is growing on the trees buying a disc is lot of money to spend. Well at least extra heavy duty offset made to chop brush. I used both to clean up after a vineyard removal here. A excavator was used to pick each vine out of the ground. Leaving a 2 foot deep hole on a 6 foot by 10 foot grid. In 3 passes, in 3 different directions with a chisel plow running a foot deep it was in a condition that you could drive it without falling in a hole. I then used the cultivator with more teeth closer together to finish smoothing it all out. Edited by Ray54 - 22 Jun 2023 at 12:55pm |
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11964 |
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Just as an example, with some looking I know for a fact I could find the old manual of the Minneapolis Moline “disc harrow”, the first ground working tool I pulled as a 8 or 9 year old kid. Sheesh that thing was old then and that was almost 50 years ago! It was about maybe 6 feet wide, no wheels, no weight to it. It wouldn’t do anything but make a clanging noise in your application. But it says “disc harrow” on that manual, I guarantee it! Others are like you say, fluted, straight, heavy, whatever.
I got a picture in my head of what you’re up against, and it might be all wrong. But I’m thinking maybe a heavy offset disc, followed by a root rake, then something to smooth things out. You’re going to have to look around and think over what you’re seeing. |
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SteveM C/IL ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8467 |
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Yeah the term disc harrow is what I call a disc. You need one of them heavy narrow notched blade disc they use on road construction sites. Something that will chop up large roots and not break.
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 85458 |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Codger ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Utopia Points: 2198 |
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Thanks guys. I have no experience working ground whether construction, or agriculture. I usually just repair the damaged items. This ground is hard and stays that way even after heavy rains. Lots of clay just under the surface. Not really something I want to spend a lot on, but do want to make it some kind of productive. I've never ran a tractor with a root rake, (I assume you mean moldboard mounted) but wondering if that would be a worthy investment to both clean up, and initially break the ground? Dozer has a tilt blade and sharp corner bits and planning to use that a lot to break roots to push the stumps over on some of the larger trees. Nothing is hardwood any longer and almost all is less than 24" in trunk size. We had the oak, and hickory harvested several years ago and used these funds to build the storage building there now. The adjoining farmland has since changed ownership and no access through the clearing any longer that existed since 1969 when this property was initially purchased. The new owners are not easy to get along with and most neighbors have ostracized them. We are landlocked on three sides with the only ingress/egress path being the county road bordering the front of the property.
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 85458 |
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since you have a Dozer, you might have more luck attaching a root rake to the blade instead of dragging something behind you....... then DISC afterwards.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 85458 |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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200Tom1 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 Jun 2019 Location: Iowa Points: 1232 |
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Codger. We took moms farm out of CRP last year. Fsa office recommended beans the first year. This ground was some of the first to go into the program over 40 years ago. Mom had the trees dozed off and burnt. We rented it to a progressive young farmer. He came in and sprayed, then no tilled beans on 160 acres. He said he had a fantastic crop of beans. Mom limed the ground, something I would recommend you have checked out. He planted corn this year and will again next year. His corn crom started out looking great, but we sure need a good rain on it.
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DiyDave ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 53242 |
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If you can't find a root rake or a disc harrow, a good ripper, on the back of that dozer will pull out big roots real nice...
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Allis dave ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 10 May 2012 Location: Northern IN Points: 2971 |
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I've seen and helped farm recently cleared ground without digging up all the roots.
cleanup all the roots and mess the best you can and run an offset disk over it simila to the one in the video above. clena up root on top again... Then disk again with a finishing disk and plant. If you continue to disk each year and don't run anything with shovels you'll pull up a minimum amount of roots and eventually 5-10 years later, those roots will desompose and be gone. If planting to hay, it's even easier becasue you only have to work it once for about 5 years to seed your hay mix. Wiht hay you would want to do a good job of cleaning up root on top so you don't run them throguh your hay mower.
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Walker ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: oh Points: 8726 |
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Buy ya some surplus usgub Daisy Cutters from Joe. Ask him if he's got a B-52 that aint busy for application you can borrow too. Tell hm you'r Ukrainian.
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Dirt Farmer ![]() Silver Level Access ![]() Joined: 15 Sep 2020 Location: Illinois Points: 385 |
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Sent you a pm
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WF owner ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4889 |
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What I haven't seen said on this post, is that you will first need to (moldboard) plow the sod first, especially on old sod. If you had a very heavy offset harrow and went over it several times, you might get away with just disking, but a well worked seed bed is important when seeding legumes or grasses. Offset discs are very heavy and take a lot of power.
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11964 |
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You wanna plow through all those roots? Even after a root rake I might not wanna. Not until they start decomposing. No thanks. |
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Codger ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Utopia Points: 2198 |
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[QUOTE=DiyDave]If you can't find a root rake or a disc harrow, a good ripper, on the back of that dozer will pull out big roots real nice... ![]() My parts tractor has most of a ripper assembly on the rear still. The The tractor hydraulic valve, and ground tines are long gone, but those could be replaced easy enough. I'm not sure what kind of wear is in the framework however as never looked. I almost feel there is enough need a root rake could be justified as they look to be something that is fairly easily mounted and dismounted to the blade. Most look to be about 12" depth of raking and about 1.250" AR400 steel constructed. I see them ready made on ebay and a few other sites.
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Codger ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Utopia Points: 2198 |
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[QUOTE=200Tom1]Codger. We took moms farm out of CRP last year. Fsa office recommended beans the first year. This ground was some of the first to go into the program over 40 years ago. Mom had the trees dozed off and burnt. We rented it to a progressive young farmer. He came in and sprayed, then no tilled beans on 160 acres. He said he had a fantastic crop of beans. Mom limed the ground, something I would recommend you have checked out. He planted corn this year and will again next year. His corn crom started out looking great, but we sure need a good rain on it. [/QUOTE For years we could not grow grass on the three acre flat area of the front of this property at all. When we harvested the hardwood back in about 2012 and opened it up quite a bit, we had several loads of lime hauled in and limed this area almost complete each year for the next three years. It grows grass readily now, and is manicured well. We did not till or do anything to the ground except broadcast spread the lime and seed with the Case VAC tractor kept down there. That tractor was our mower and workhorse for many years and now retired. I expect this rear acreage we are conversing about will be about the same to get back to growing something besides weeds.....
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WF owner ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4889 |
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I know what you are saying, but the point I was raising is there is going to be very thick sod in the area that is not disturbed taking out trees. A regular disc harrow is going to barely scratch that sod.
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Tenn allis ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 24 Nov 2016 Location: Tennessee Points: 132 |
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Just finished clearing a 80 acre plot and I can share my experience. You could get someone with a track hoe and pull the trees and pile they do a good job and keep dirt out of the piles so they’ll burn. When they finish pull a heavy bog type disk with a drag to fill holes and level do not be afraid to cut it several times. Then comes the fun part picking up the roots root rakes are a good tool but if you run them to low you’ll get dirt in your pile and they won’t burn skim the ground and they work good and piles will burn but unless you have a pto driven rake to windrow the roots and a pull behind loader that picks up the windrows be prepared to pick up a lot of roots
I ended up buying a D7 with a cutting blade to finish this plot of land. After cutting 40 acres we mounted a root rake on the C-frame to pile and burn worked good got corn planted on part of it this past spring. On your last pace with a disk if you can pull a culti-packer it will help push the smaller roots back into the soil so they won’t interfere with your future crop |
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11964 |
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I get what your point is too. I wouldn’t use a “regular “ disc. I’d go with something like a heavy offset, or breaking disc or whatever popular term for a similar thing. If the soil is set hard, plow might not even dig in. All good. |
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victoryallis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 15 Apr 2010 Location: Ludington mi Points: 2877 |
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Spray it asap with roundup that will get the sod rotting down. Cut a decent road in. Hire someone with a nice heavy disc chop up the smaller roots and so forth. Most of the older smaller discs simply don’t weigh enough. Go a couple years of corn till things rot down some. BTDT Hayfields you want putting green smooth Once you get it broke up use a field cultivator to shake it apart.
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8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
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Coke-in-MN ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Afton MN Points: 41817 |
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I cleared several areas of small trees with dozer blade , then went in and pulled a 2 bottom plow through area to bring up roots left after removing the trees .
Next a 4 gang disc run over area to break up any other clumps and bring some roots back into soil or exposed to be picked up . A friend made a ripper tooth that mounts over the dozer blade of his machine and used it like a root rake (he made 5 of these) and they just hang over blade , when he back drag they pivot outward and just drag on the ground but going forward they dig in |
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
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Codger ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Utopia Points: 2198 |
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Thanks guys. Was speaking with my uncle this afternoon and he says if I'll get an access road cut through he'll get the ground work done after the trees are removed. Another friend has an older Hein-Werner excavator and is willing to take the trees out to help me out too. If I go this route, I can see a root rake being beneficial as well as some tillage equipment to maintain and use into the future. I will also be able to use the dozer quite a bit in the project. I purchased an 8-1/4 yd dolly wheel ejector scraper for relocating some dirt to flatten off some of the ruts and falloff of the edges to reclaim more ground also.
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Lars(wi) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Permian Basin Points: 7697 |
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Just to throw this out, does the timber have value?
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I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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Codger ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Utopia Points: 2198 |
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No, I don't believe so; it is just soft maple and other soft woods. There are some red oak sapplings, and we have been attempting to transplant them, but still quite small.
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 85458 |
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you might check with the local tree cutter crew... Maple is used for furniture, pallets and other.. The might be willing to cut them down and take the logs ( get some $$ or just free _) so you dont have to stack and burn........ easier to push the branches up into a pile afterwards.. Tell them to leave the bottom 5 ft for stump removal with the hoe or dozer.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Codger ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Utopia Points: 2198 |
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That is an idea. We had a pretty difficult time with the hardwood citing limited access for equipment, but we don't have that access available any longer. If I get a road cut in and the creek bridged, the possibility is there for certain. This is my project "Man Lift" I'm currently working on. Main lift cylinder leaks badly so sending it in for rebuild. Hope to pick it out this morning while still cool outside with the skid steer. Photos were snapped yesterday after I was really tired working in the direct sunlight most of the day: ![]() I welded these grab hooks onto the boom forward of lift pin mounting and offset the hooks 15 degrees leaning in at the top, and 25 degrees in at the bottoms to lessen the angles pulled upon by the bridle chain attached to my Mack winch tractor: ![]() This actually seemed to work pretty well and is very stable with the rotation lock engaged. The tractor is butted against the rear counterweight and the cable is one inch so quite a lot of strength there: ![]() Again, hoping to pick the main lift cylinder out this morning but it is very heavy. I think 8" bore and about 40+ inches of stroke with a 3.50" rod. Now is the time I wish I'd gotten off my "duff" and put the freshly rebuilt engine back into the forklift..... ![]() Working by my lonesome so all three of my personalities come to bear, I get things done albeit slowly. Most every time my son has been down there cutting trees they get wrapped around and into the others in close proximity so planning to take this down there and "top" them first.
Edited by Codger - 24 Jun 2023 at 5:44am |
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 85458 |
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Working by my lonesome so all three of my personalities come to bear, I get things done albeit slowly.
Been there, done that... I tell the wife the easy things get done quickly.. the impossible take a little longer..... nice rigging on the boom !
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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