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Well Pump Duty Cycle |
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11964 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 05 Mar 2024 at 11:29am |
Hey all, coming up I have a need to pump a lot of water. I was thinking about rigging up a solenoid valve, timer, and float so that the pump could run and rest. Then when the tank is full and the solenoid comes on it wouldn’t pump because the float valve would be closed. Just curious what you think might be a good rotation of on/off duration to set up? I’m able to store about 1600 gallons.
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 85478 |
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I dont know how fast your using the water, or how big the pump is... but fast cycling is a no-no... The LONG cycle times are best... If you have a 30 GPM pump and fill up 600 gallons, that is 20 minutes.. I dont see any problem with that... but of course you are USING water at the same time... Guess some of it depends on the DRAW rate from the tank..
Seems like a simple system with a FLOAT switch would be adequate ? Not sure the timer is adding anything ? Edited by steve(ill) - 05 Mar 2024 at 12:26pm |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Lars(wi) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Permian Basin Points: 7697 |
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What are tapping into? Household plumbing system with a garden house? Off a tap from a well house using 1.25”-2.0” faucet? Most submersible pumps can run for hours without ‘cycling off’, that’s what they are designed to do.
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I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 85478 |
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a small pump with 20 GPM output will fill that 1600 gallon tank in an hour and half .
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Les Kerf ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 08 May 2020 Location: Idaho Points: 1050 |
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A lot depend on: If you are pumping from a well, how much can it deliver? What equipment do you already have? How much can you afford? From what information you have given thus far it seems that a variable speed constant pressure pump might be a good solution.
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Coke-in-MN ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Afton MN Points: 41819 |
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Most submersible pumps require cooling by being covered by water ,
Most wells are rated at flow to maintain a certain recovery rate to casing Filling a swimming pool years back the 3/4 HP pump I have in my 86' deep well pumped for around 35 hours . My well has 40' standing water in casing and pump drawdown seems to have little or no effect on water in casing as far as recovery rate . If you have variable load of water supplied to fixtures you might look into pumps with variable speed for flow . Seems this is something more systems are using to keep pressure constant where in most systems controlled by pressure switch on and off there is a range setting like 20 PSI -ON- 60 PSI -OFF cycle . |
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
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DMiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 33121 |
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Our home well has a outstanding recovery rate, the driller noted did not lose volume in thirty minutes of well pumpdown test. Other well at barn is artesian where had to put a casing drain to keep the level down to a normal.
The house system is a variable speed constant pressure, control for that was a lot extra but will keep up with Laundry and three showers running full tilt then someone flushes toilet. Actually a more consistent pressure than a city service system. Was told by driller with a back flow check system could install a Cattle Waterer and not lose house pressure. I was actually in my shop as guests were cleaning up and wife doing laundry, i was one to flush toilet. Watched the control system work as is inside the shop not the house. |
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WF owner ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4889 |
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I remember, back in the 70's and 80's, that when the (around 100) cows would be drinking (usually after eating dry hay), the jet pump would hit the thermal overload and shut off. When it cooled, it would restart, sometimes several times. We would have to replace the jet pump about once per year.
A submersible pump, cooled by the well water, solved those problems. I just looked up how much water a dairy cow drinks per day and came up with 30 to 50 gallons per day. When you add in water for washing the pipeline and bulk tank, plus this pump supplied the house, too, this pump was probably pumping at least 5000 to 6000 gallons per day, every day.
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11964 |
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Will be pumping out of my well that services the barn. I really have no idea what the recovery rate is. I will be getting the water out of a frost free hydrant and garden hose, storing it in a 1600 gallon tank. Use will be periodic for a while but very fast when I need it.
The well I think is only 1/2 HP pump. Rate out of the hydrant and hose ain’t much over 5 GPM, maybe 7 at most. Realistically looking at over 5 hours to fill the tank, and will fill a few times. So, a float will stop it once full. I didn’t think 5 straight hours would be the best idea for the pump. I was thinking maybe 45 minutes on, 15 off or something like that. The barn itself will be demanding water while this happens. Once I’ve got a tank full, I’ve got a good pump for moving lots of water, just no quick way of getting it out of the ground! And no access to any creek or pond or anything clean and reliably flowing. What can I afford? A free lunch! |
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11964 |
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Now I know how awesome your system is. Thanks! ![]() |
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11964 |
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I thought my original post explained I was taking it out of my well. I called it well pump, but didn’t specifically say I was taking about my actual well. Sorry for the confusion.
![]() Edited by Tbone95 - 06 Mar 2024 at 9:23am |
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Ray54 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Paso Robles, Ca Points: 4659 |
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A lot of low producing wells here, along with very high producing one. We take our best guess as to GPM of well and put a pump in to match. For irrigation in vineyard, some run weeks at a time without being shut off. As long as they don't over heat they last years. So if any question a device commonly referred to as pump saver is put in system. It shuts the pump off if water gets low, and then restarts it, and runs until out of water again. They are adjustable for the time they stay off.
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 85478 |
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Pump output of 5 GPM would probably be a shallow well pump/ motor not submerged. With that, yes you are worried about heat buildup in the motor since it is not in the water.. Cycle time of 30 minute run, then cool off for 15 minutes MIGHT be a good idea.. I think i would monitor the motor temp while running for 30- 45 minutes and see that it stays below maybe 180 degrees.. ( new motor can go higher.. but old motor and long term operation would be BEST to be well below 200 deg).
Edited by steve(ill) - 06 Mar 2024 at 4:22pm |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11964 |
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It is submerged and very deep. My opinion is those frost free hydrants are pretty restrictive. Im judging by how fast it fills a bucket. I might have a fitting down in the pit that I could tie into for more flow. Just don’t know if in the long term that’s any better.
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 85478 |
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Being a water cooled pump, it should run forever... until you run out of water..
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11964 |
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Ya, and that’s what I don’t want and don’t know how long I’d have. I guess I could call the well company, it’s only a couple years old, they may have documented something. The half horsepower of the motor is from dad’s memory too. Which is pretty darn good, but still!
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WF owner ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4889 |
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A 1/2 hp. submersible pump will push a lot more water than a 1/2 hp. jet pump will pull.
Back when my kids were teenagers, we had a 27' (4' deep) above ground pool. According to the internet, it held 15,054 gallons. We filled it with water from our submersible pump when it was new and again a few years later when we had to replace the liner. Every spring we refilled after lowering for winter. The 24-year-old 1/2 hp. submersible pump that did that supplied our house with 5 people. It finally died in 2017. We never had a pump problem before that. I really don't think what you are going to do will be a problem for a submersible pump.
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Dakota Dave ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: ND Points: 3964 |
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my 1 hp submersible in my well ran open line 30 gpm for 24 hours when flushing the well still working normally 15 years later. the small submersible I used at work ran for 24 hours many times as long as submerged there's no li
mit how long you can run it
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Ray54 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Paso Robles, Ca Points: 4659 |
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This will turn your pump off if water is low. FRANKLIN ELECTRIC Pumptec QD water well pump protection 1/3HP-1 HP 230V LOW YIELD WELLS - Amazon.com
I just grabbed this off the net, not what is on mine. But mine is adjustable for the period you want it off before restarting. Very cheap insurance compared to replacing a pump if you run out of water on a low producing well.
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DaveKamp ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5957 |
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The pump's HP rating is simply to categorize it. The pump has two circumstances of load-point. First is volume, second is LIFT... Because LIFT equates to pressure. Let's say your well lift (to get water from the submerged pump, to the surface, is 138 feet. That pump will be lifting at the pressure of 60psi just to get to the surface. In order to charge an accumulator tank to 40psi, your pump's TOTAL lift pressure will be 100psi. Now, it doesn't matter wether your pump is 1/8hp or 80hp, if the PUMP can't manage beyond 50psi, you won't be lifting water to the surface. IF it can only make 90psi, you're only gonna have 30psi in the accumulator tank. Once you've made that PRESSURE, now you need to identify what VOLUME of flow, which effectively determines what the total power your pump can demonstrate. |
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Codger ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Utopia Points: 2198 |
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Always easier to push fluid than pull it; no matter the medium.
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That's All Folks!
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Les Kerf ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 08 May 2020 Location: Idaho Points: 1050 |
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Yup, I have a similar unit on my low-producing well, it has functioned nicely for 30+ years. A 3/4" hydrant left of will drain that well in 30 minutes or less so it gets tested every so often. |
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Ted J ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 05 Jul 2010 Location: La Crosse, WI Points: 18923 |
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If it's a deep well pump, I have it on GOOD authority from two
people that you can run it from now until the take our home electricity
away from us to give to the places where yer gonna plug your new elec.
car or truck in......
![]() ![]() One of the guys is on here, but hasn't been on very much, but lives in Carson Iowa, by the name of Les Royer. Goes by LesRoyer on here. He was a well driller and ergo, knew his weight in water. ![]() Both of em (other guy I golf with) say it's best to have them run continuous rather than stop and start. Hope this helps......
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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
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WF owner ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4889 |
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I agree Ted.
We had a local guy that rebuilt electric motors and sold them, in addition to just about everything electrical. He told me the same thing. Starting a motor was the toughest thing on them.
He told me that ruptured bladder pressure, that made the pump quickly cycle on and off, was one of the biggest causes of water pump motor failures. |
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