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WD45 PTO Oil Seal

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TimCNY View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimCNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: WD45 PTO Oil Seal
    Posted: 17 Apr 2018 at 11:05am
This is more or less a continuation of another thread, http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/wd-rear-bolt-up-to-wd45_topic143113.html but the subject has shifted to actual repairs I'm doing.

I reinstalled the PTO housing into the torque tube and used a new gasket. Refilled, checked for leaks and -- GAH! Well, the new PTO gasket isn't leaking BUT the stub shaft oil seal IS. At the rate of about one glob-drop every 5 seconds or so. I've put a clean catch bucket under it to recover whatever is lost until I can get back to working on it.

My question is, can that oil seal be replaced while leaving the PTO housing installed in the torque tube and just removing the bearing race, or does the assembly need to be removed to perform the oil seal replacement? Not fixing that leak is not an option. It'll lose too much oil during the course of using the tractor. With limited time I'm just looking for a simpler/faster way of getting the job done. Some of you have already got your planting done, but here it's still snowing and we're looking at on and off snow continuing through Thursday. When conditions do get to where I can actually get plowing, everything else will be in full swing, too. While I'm at it, any suggestions for the seal and the shim (I'm figuring that needs to be replaced as well)?

Thanks in advance!
- Tim
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2018 at 12:14pm

If you are creative enough, you can change that PTO seal in chassis after draining the oil out of it. You need to dig out the old seal by whatever method works. To install a new seal you'll need a piece of pipe the right O.D. to drive it into place. You may need a driver to extend from the drawbar area all the way to the seal area, which will take two people.  My experience has been a new seal is thinner than the old original and you can install two seals in the same place. Be sure to put some Loctite or other sealer on the seals O.D. and be careful not to roll the lip on either seal.  Pack some grease around the seals spring to keep it in place when driving on it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2018 at 1:21pm
That's the best advice you can get right there
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TimCNY View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimCNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2018 at 1:51pm
Terrific, thank you. Is there a part number to go by for the new seal(s), and the shim? I've looked around online and there seems to be a bit of confusion, at least for me. Even on the same website, one seal is listed showing "one needed for WD45 PTO" and just below it another seal stating "two needed for WD45 PTO." This may be due to what you're saying about thickness, DrAllis, I'm not sure. The manuals that I have do not give part numbers, only names.

Again, thanks!
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Stan IL&TN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stan IL&TN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2018 at 2:20pm
702247791SEAL, oil, stub shaft
1957 WD45 dad's first AC

1968 one-seventy

1956 F40 Ferguson
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Stan IL&TN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stan IL&TN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2018 at 2:23pm
Tim,
You can look up parts here at the AGCO site.
 
Select guest books and then enter your model number.  You will get a parts breakdown along with part numbers. 
1957 WD45 dad's first AC

1968 one-seventy

1956 F40 Ferguson
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TimCNY View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimCNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2018 at 2:31pm
Thank you, I feel stupid for not having discovered that before on my own lol!

EDIT - huh... At some point I DID add it to my favorites... memory ain't what it used to be.

Edited by TimCNY - 17 Apr 2018 at 2:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wfmurray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2018 at 3:25pm
I am not familiar with your situation but i have a B .Seal leaks at belt pulley shaft .It has tapered bearings  and fail to get it apart to tighten bearing  and with new seal it still leaks some.If you have a loose tapered bearing you can not stop leak untill bearing is repaired.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian G.  NY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2018 at 4:46pm
Originally posted by Stan IL&TN Stan IL&TN wrote:

702247791SEAL, oil, stub shaft


When I replaced my seals, the National numbers were:

Output shaft:   #470950

Shifter shaft:   #470027

Common seals, found at almost any auto parts store.

But.......that was in 2000....my, how time does fly!




Edited by Brian G. NY - 17 Apr 2018 at 4:47pm
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TimCNY View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimCNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 8:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian G.  NY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 10:08am
Originally posted by TimCNY TimCNY wrote:

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NOS13797?interchange=1

Look about right, Brian?

That's the one....I was even able to cross reference it to my Nat'l. number by using NAPA's box up in the RH corner.

I didn't do it, but I like Doc's advice about installing two seals.

If you do any mowing, hay can get in the seal and destroy it quickly.

A double seal should lessen the chances of that problem.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimCNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 10:37am
I may be heading to the farm this afternoon. I have one question, or point of confusion - DrAllis, when you wrote that the old seal should be dug out, am I understanding you to say that I don't need to remove the bearing cage at all? I'm not familiar enough (yet) with the internal anatomy of the PTO. From looking at parts diagrams, I made the immediate presumption that it would have to be removed. But after another look and re-reading your post, I figure I made a mistake and violated the rules of how things are illustrated and the way they go together. I mentally placed the seal(s) on the wrong side of the bearing cage. ...I think...

Thanks again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 10:54am
The seal is on the outside of the bearing. You can punch a hole with a screw driver and pry it out, or run a self tapping screw into it and slide hammer it out.
 Take a good look at the shaft, where the lip of the seal runs. Remove any burrs from the shaft and make sure the new lip doesn't set in a groove worn by the old seal.
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimCNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 5:05pm
Thanks Charlie, once I got up there and took a look it made sense. Goofing it up in my head was the only real problem. The rear PTO shaft came off a lot easier this time. Unfortunately every shop I called within reasonable driving distance didn't have the seals, the nearest NAPA said they'd have them tomorrow morning. So it'll wait a while longer.

I checked the final drive sumps, they were clean as a whistle and the fluid looked new! I've owned the tractor 5 years now, put it in the barn a year and a half or so ago but worked it a lot before I stored it. I thought for sure the fluid would be thick and sludgy, or none at all, must be the previous owner changed it. But I still was surprised that it looked new.

Hopefully all that's left is the PTO seals and the brakes.

Thanks again, guys.
- Tim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimCNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 12:37pm
It's been awhile and too many other things took priority over this. I've only been able to give a little time, a few times, to work on the brakes and PTO seal.

Anyways, yesterday I was able to get about 20 minutes free and removed most of the old (original) stub shaft oil seal. Unfortunately, the outer "ring" of the old seal is still stubbornly hanging on in the bearing cage/case. It looks to me that the I can either get a small gear puller in there to try to catch under the back of it, or pull the bearing cage, bringing me back more or less to one of my first questions: Do I need to pull the whole PTO box in order to get the bearing cage off, or can I accomplish its removal by taking off just the two housing nuts that are in the way? My guess is Id have to pull the box, because it looks like the studs would end up being as much in the way of bearing case removal as the nuts are.
I won't be able to get back there again until tomorrow at the earliest. Thanks in advance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 5:37pm
Tim,
I think the studs may be in the way to get the triangular bearing/ seal housing off.
Keep in mind that there are thin metal and paper shims in back of that triangular casting too. I never seem to get that correct. So bottom line is it may be better for you to pull the PTO housing again. Good news is it should come right off since you had it off in the past.
Having the triangular cover off will allow you to punch the rest of the seal out and be ready to install new one or two. I put two in the last one I did.

You can see how close the studs would be in this picture:

The triangular bearing cover off the PTO:

Easier to install the new seal/s too.


Hope this helps?
Regards,
 Chris


Edited by Sugarmaker - 14 Jan 2019 at 5:42pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimCNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 7:20pm
Yes it does, Chris, and thanks. Confirmed my thoughts. I'll be trying the small jaw puller first lol. Worth a try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimCNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2019 at 1:38pm
I'm trying to source the paper shims/gaskets without success, P/N 70224655 (0.005") as shown on the AGCO Parts Book for the WD45 PTO. I have 4 metal shims sandwiched between 5 paper. Any help is appreciated. Also, Allis service manual says "Place rear cover in place using sealer on all shims..." Is there a preferred sealer? I was just going to use Indian Head brand gasket shellac. Not sure if best choice, so I'm asking for advice. Thanks again!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimCNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2019 at 10:01am
All set, a great big THANK YOU!!! to Sarah at Sandy Lake Implement. And thank you, Chris, for the tip!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2019 at 12:15pm
Awesome!
Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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