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Wd45 hydraulic pump shims

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55allis View Drop Down
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Joined: 30 Jun 2020
Location: Southwest IA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 55allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Wd45 hydraulic pump shims
    Posted: 16 May 2023 at 10:45pm
Hi a’ll,
So I tore down my hydraulic pump because it wouldn’t pick my 13 foot disk up very fast (it made a sloth look fast) and found it has a lot of shims…
So I’m wondering if it’s worth putting more shims? Or is there something else I need to look at? Or replace the pump with another one?
It quit working right after I put new O-rings and seals in it otherwise it worked before…
I do think it has quite a bit of wear from what it looks like in the inside…
[IMG]http://IMG]uploads/21210/0726B8A3-531B-446F-AB46-20C2804DBD4A.jpeg[/IMG] [/IMG]
1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45
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SteveM C/IL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2023 at 8:29am
40 yrs ago I put a new unloader valve in mine because of low pressure. Didn't fix it. Been apart many times trying to fix. Easy to nick o-rings on unloader. Have replaced all the ball/seat combos 2-3 times. Sandy Lake went through it once with same result. Got a thick custom washer in place of all those shims. Unload pressures are all over the place. Always most at idle/low rpm. The camshaft looks fine. Tried different pump...no better. I gave up.
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55allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 55allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2023 at 8:46am
Well that sounds disappointing….
I wonder if the cam could be worn out than…
1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce Nelson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2023 at 9:00am
Sometimes new rollers need to have the heels relieved to allow full travel.
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55allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 55allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2023 at 9:34am
Originally posted by Bruce Nelson Bruce Nelson wrote:

Sometimes new rollers need to have the heels relieved to allow full travel.

How is that done?
1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2023 at 10:37am
Until you replace all FIVE check ball return springs and new Orings everywhere else, you are making an assumption that the relief valve is your problem, which it probably isn't.  I look at all the dirt in your picture and wonder how much is where it shouldn't be. Screw "D" must be all the way OUT and the hand lever has to be turning the pump ON 100% to have any speed. What size lift cylinder are you using ??
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55allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 55allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2023 at 1:04pm
I think it has like a 8” or 10” stroke, it’s on an AC 13ft disk.
I took the picture before I cleaned it up so it isn’t cleaned yet…
It worked just fine before I replaced the seals where the levers go in ( they would leave a trail of oil).
I did replace the O-rings on the relief valve with AGCO O-rings, so I guess they could have given me the wrong ones?
I’ll get a picture of it with the O-rings when I’m around it…
1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2023 at 1:08pm
Normal cylinders are always 8 inch stroke. What is the DIAMETER ??   A big diameter cylinder will be very slow on an old high-pressure system like that. Your lift arms should go from bottom to top in 2 seconds with engine revved up. That would be correct speed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 55allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2023 at 11:36pm
Ok here I switch the pump from a parts tractor that didn’t supposedly have pump problem and I’m running into a new problem…
So now it will only pick up anything with the tractor at idle, give it throttle and it’s a joke to pick anything up…
So I put a pressure gauge on it and at idle it runs around 3000psi, run the tractor at full throttle and it goes down to 1000-1500 psi, not enough to lift anything…
When I first started the tractor with the different pump it ran to 4100psi and wouldn’t release so I kill the tractor and cracked a line( of course with safety being number one).
Now this is really getting on my nerves trying to do anything with it…
1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2023 at 12:32pm
The shims on the relief spool only set pressure. Adding .010 shim will increase the pressure about 700 PSI. Relief should be at 3400 psi, then drop to 1700 or so.
 Shims have nothing to do with the 'speed' actually volume of the output. Volume is made with the 3 low pressure pistons, high pressure is by the 4th piston.
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2023 at 5:06pm
I was always taught when you get a stack of shims like that it is time to replace the cartridge. It's worn out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 55allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2023 at 6:01pm
The picture is of the old pump…
Could someone explain how a good working pump works?
Maybe that would help to know exactly how it works first…
What I think could be happening is something is sticking up the main release valve, problem is I’m not exactly sure which one…
I know there’s 5 balls (one for each piston and one main one) but is there something else?
I know the pump has the ability to work right just because it will work fine when the tractor is low idle, its when the rpm’s go up is the problem.
1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2023 at 7:23pm
You've replaced all FIVE of those balls and ball springs, right ??????  Sounds like too heavy of oil, as that's the way they act in the winter time....slow until the oil warms up. But if ANY of the springs are broken, probably the same thing. Also linkage adjust or severely worn linkage not turning the pump "ON" fully and finally Screw "D" must be clear out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 55allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2023 at 10:14pm
I haven’t replaced them yet..
I’ll get some coming as soon as I can…
I’m going to check the other 3 just for kicks but the two I checked already seemed fine.
1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 55allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2023 at 10:15pm
Also for the oil, I use John Deere hydraulic oil.
1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 55allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2023 at 11:37pm
So as I’m looking on agco parts book I see they have a rebuild kit for $280 bucks, is it worth it?
Part number 70255303
1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2023 at 1:14am
Never used one. Can't tell you. I've never spent that much yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 55allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2023 at 12:35pm
I ordered all new balls and springs today at Robinson Implement, they had everything but 3 springs and a gasket…
Love how they stock most things even for these old tractors!!!
1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 55allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2023 at 6:46pm
Well I got all new balls, springs, and O-rings in it and it won’t let it go down without all my (130 lbs) weight on the lift arms and it still won’t lift at full throttle at 2500psi and idle at 2900psi…
I’m starting to wonder if I should send it to someone else with more experience…
1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2023 at 7:05pm
The fact that it won't lower is the linkage adjustment is wrong. You've complained about this pump being slow since your first post back in May. I've asked you twice what DIAMETER of cylinder you are using on your 13 ft disc and you've never said. A disc like that doesn't lift hard and 2500 psi should do it. You've had the pump removed from the tractor?? and thoroughly washed out the inside of the hydraulic sump with gas or diesel fuel so it is CLEAN  ??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dakota Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2023 at 7:36pm
Have you changed the coupling on the tractor and the coupler end on the hose.they can look good and not leak and still not allow enough fluid flow. I changed all mine to pioneer fittings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 55allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2023 at 7:40pm
I figure linkage for the lowering problem and yes I cleaned the pump out with gas to help get rid of build up of crap in the traction booster housing.
And it does this with my pressure gauge,also when I have snap coupler implements on too
1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2023 at 12:55am
I assume you looked at all the internal linkage of the pump inside the control box area  to be sure something isn't worn or worn out ??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 55allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2023 at 1:37pm
Everything in it looks good to me…
I’m thinking of maybe adding some shims?
I have a stack from a junk pump…
1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2023 at 6:45am
Shims will only increase your maximun pressure (Think lift capacity) they won't speed up your lift.
When I bouhgt my WD45, it would pick up my Allis 10' wheel disk using an Allis cylinder, but not my mounted plow. I put a gauge on the outlet and i was only getting about 750 PSI.
You should be able to lift your disk fine on 2000PSI.

I rebuilt the pump and found a few broken springs. Replaced all like Doc said and got up to 1700PSI. I would lift the plow barely if it wasn't sitting down in the dirt.
Took it apart again and added shim but not much better.
Got a good used unload valve formm Sandy Lake and wiht some shim adjustment got up to 3500PSI. Not I can lift the plow great even if it's sitting still in the ground from plowing wiht dirt covering it.

My point: It sounds like your linkage needs adjusted or you're using the wrong cylinder.
Shim and your PSI only increase your capacity to lift more weight, not lift faster.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 55allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2023 at 9:51am
My problem does it without anything hooked up just the pressure gauge…
Sounds like the hold valve could be cracked?
I have a supply of them so I will switch it…
I rebuilt the hold valve 2 years ago but it’s possible…
1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45
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