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lmc122 
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 Topic: WD-45 cranking pressure
Posted: 16 Dec 2011 at 1:09pm |
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My wd-45 smokes a lot, I did a compression check on it today and got 180, 165, 160, and 180psi. This seem way too high, is it possible someone has put flat top pistons in it, and if so is it going to give any problems. This is going to be a working tractor not a puller. With the compression being good could the smoke be from worn valve guides.
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mlpankey
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Posted: 16 Dec 2011 at 1:48pm |
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yeap. or rings . need to do a leak down test with compressed air . then you will know where the air goes .
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lmc122
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Posted: 17 Dec 2011 at 7:50am |
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What should the cranking pressure be on a WD-45, and what would cause mine to be so high?
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DrAllis
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Posted: 17 Dec 2011 at 7:54am |
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Around 110-120 psi.....not all gauges are created equal....check gauge against another good/known quality engine.
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lmc122
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Posted: 17 Dec 2011 at 8:02am |
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My gauge is good and I used another one I had just to be sure and got the same results.
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stray
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Posted: 17 Dec 2011 at 10:37am |
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The only answer to increased comperssion is changes to the internal parts of the engine, like maybe a flat top piston (a wd piston and a 45 crank). I'm not saying that is what was done, but could be. I guess that carbon build up could also cause some increase in compression but the readings would be all over the place. Any wear or breakage will only reduce compression. How long have you had the 45 and have you done any engine work? By your readings I would guess the 180 readings are what that engine was built to have (not stock) and the smoking problem has to do with the connection between the #2 & #3 holes, or the head gasket.
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1969 190XT series 3
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lmc122
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Posted: 17 Dec 2011 at 11:14am |
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I just got this tractor, don't know what's been done to it in the past. I'm trying to save money and don't want to rebuild the whole motor. The rings seem to fine, so I'm going to rebuild the head. I just don't under stand why the compresson is so high when it should be around 120psi. If someone has put flattops in it will it still be usable for farm work?
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wi50
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Posted: 17 Dec 2011 at 11:36am |
guessing someone put wc or wd pistons in or your gauge is way odd. i have one with 8 to 1 and it is about 130psi . with wd or wc pistons it could be in the 11 or 12 to 1 compression range and in the1 170 to 220 range depending on. that is pretty high for a work tractor unless you use better gas or blend it.
when you pull the head off turn the engine to tdc and measure how far down the piston is feom the block deck and measure another cylinder to see if it is a 4.5 stroke for sure . i just pulled ine apart the same way and the flat top piston was .380 down from the deck which is way to close meaning someone put wd pistons in it.
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"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
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BobHnwO
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Posted: 17 Dec 2011 at 12:43pm |
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Is it using engine oil,or is the oil bath air cleaner over full?
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Why do today what you can put off til tomorrow.
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lmc122
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Posted: 17 Dec 2011 at 12:57pm |
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It's burning engine oil, and the cleaner is fine.
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mlpankey
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Posted: 17 Dec 2011 at 2:20pm |
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11.1 compression blown up sucking oil past the rings oil fouling plugs within minutes will blow 230 psi on a good gauge. unless somebody put them darn hercules 8.5 inch long rods in it like WI 50 recomends, then the effective stroke would fall to 3.09 inches and a 12.1 compression motor would blow the compression of a 9.1 motor with stock rods .just another reason not to use longer rods. long rods suck in torque motors
Edited by mlpankey - 17 Dec 2011 at 3:19pm
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mlpankey
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Posted: 17 Dec 2011 at 3:27pm |
 mlpankey wrote:
11.1 compression blown up sucking oil past the rings oil fouling plugs within minutes will blow 230 psi on a good gauge. unless somebody put them darn hercules 8.5 inch long rods in it like WI 50 recomends, then the effective stroke would fall to 3.09 inches and a 12.1 compression motor would blow the compression of a 9.1 motor with stock rods .just another reason not to use longer rods. long rods suck in torque motors |
this should get the long rod short rod fued started again .deep down they know I am always right
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David Maddux
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Posted: 17 Dec 2011 at 3:36pm |
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Could the oil burning be from worn valve guides?
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mlpankey
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Posted: 17 Dec 2011 at 4:54pm |
David Maddux wrote:
Could the oil burning be from worn valve guides? |
yeap thats why he needs to do a cylinder leak down test to see where the compressed air goes . if it goes into the valve cover its guides. if it goes out the carb its intake valve /seats .if it goes out the exhaust exhaust valve and or seats. if it goes into the oil pan its rings. aint nothing to it but doing it.
Edited by mlpankey - 17 Dec 2011 at 4:55pm
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DrAllis
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Posted: 17 Dec 2011 at 5:37pm |
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He just simply needs to quit reading all of this speculation advice and yank off the cylinder head to have it refurbished and determine what pistons are in it and how bad the ring groove wear is on the sleeves. Any ring groove on those sleeves usually means new pistons and sleeves. Also is it a 4 inch bore or a 4 1/8" bore. Grinding the valves will usually make oil burning even worse.
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mlpankey
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Posted: 17 Dec 2011 at 7:08pm |
DrAllis wrote:
He just simply needs to quit reading all of this speculation advice and yank off the cylinder head to have it refurbished and determine what pistons are in it and how bad the ring groove wear is on the sleeves. Any ring groove on those sleeves usually means new pistons and sleeves. Also is it a 4 inch bore or a 4 1/8" bore. Grinding the valves will usually make oil burning even worse. |
that will work to.
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Rod B
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Posted: 17 Dec 2011 at 8:54pm |
mlpankey wrote:
11.1 compression blown up sucking oil past the rings oil fouling plugs within minutes will blow 230 psi on a good gauge. unless somebody put them darn hercules 8.5 inch long rods in it like WI 50 recomends, then the effective stroke would fall to 3.09 inches and a 12.1 compression motor would blow the compression of a 9.1 motor with stock rods .just another reason not to use longer rods. long rods suck in torque motors |
What hercules has 8.5 inch rods? I need a set. I woldn't be too quick to try and take any cheap shots at WI50. I watched that tractor out run and out torque some 5 1/2 and 6" stroke motors in an outlaw class at the National GOTO this past summer.
How did your pulling season go?
Edited by Rod B - 18 Dec 2011 at 12:47am
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wi50
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Posted: 18 Dec 2011 at 4:03pm |
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i do not know of anu 8.5 inch herc rods rod b. someone is makeing things up again as i have never said anything about the herc roda. goes to show why some of us are successful and others only try
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"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
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mlpankey
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Posted: 18 Dec 2011 at 4:11pm |
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That must be the only pull it made when it out pulled all them for show tractors.thats all you hear about it anyways. If your so impressed, buy it . Its in the classifieds
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AaronSEIA
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Posted: 18 Dec 2011 at 5:09pm |
Good Lord, can't get away from the YT pulling forum over here. If I had the $$$ I'd give each of you $10,000 and 6 months. The winner wins, the loser goes away. And please, no one tell me they will be the winner. It got old there, it's old here.
AaronSEIA
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Rod B
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Posted: 18 Dec 2011 at 5:18pm |
yeah, I would not call WD45 and WC tractors running 4000 to 5000 RPM in 3rd gear show tractors. Point is WI50 has one that runs awesome and has proven it. Pankey is all talk and has proven that.
I still want to know of these magic 8.5" Hercules rods the ML is refering to.
I seen WI's tractor run. I read about it on the YT forum a few times people talking about it winning in different places. It's a neat machine and if any of you get the chance to talk to Marty he is a first class guy. He helped my brother and I out getting Chrystler heads adapted to our 301 build in the works.
Edited by Rod B - 18 Dec 2011 at 5:23pm
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mlpankey
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Posted: 18 Dec 2011 at 5:49pm |
Rod B wrote:
yeah, I would not call WD45 and WC tractors running 4000 to 5000 RPM in 3rd gear show tractors. Point is WI50 has one that runs awesome and has proven it. Pankey is all talk and has proven that.
I still want to know of these magic 8.5" Hercules rods the ML is refering to.
I seen WI's tractor run. I read about it on the YT forum a few times people talking about it winning in different places. It's a neat machine and if any of you get the chance to talk to Marty he is a first class guy. He helped my brother and I out getting Chrystler heads adapted to our 301 build in the works. save that expense and buy the wc.
8.5 inch long herc rod suppose to fit right where a buda 262 rod will . i am skeptical of that but thats what a fellow called here to tell me he was going to do to a crank i had sold him that was ground to the buda journal. |
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lmc122
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Posted: 19 Dec 2011 at 12:32pm |
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Well I took the head off today, and it has flat top pistons in it... And even worst it looks like they put 4" pistons in 4 1/8" sleeves, big gaps between the pistons and the side wall about 1/8" when pushed over to one side. anyone have a wd-45 with flat tops? The reason I ask is, I have good running wc parts tractor that dose not smoke, if it's not going to cause me problems I'll pull the pistons and sleeves out of it and put them in the 45. What would the compression ratio be with flat tops. The guy I got off of bailed hay with it for years and he said it always smoked bad. I have $625 in it I'm trying to save money so the wife don't shoot me!!! If I can swap pistons and sleeves with the wc I will, but if it's not a good thing to do then I guess I'll be doing some sweet talking to the wife.
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DougS
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Posted: 19 Dec 2011 at 3:12pm |
It would be a good idea to drop the pan and check the crank and bearings while you are at it. Take a look at the rods too. I think you're opening a can of worms when you try to swap used parts back and forth, especially from one engine type to another. The purist in me says order an in frame overhaul kit, complete with the correct pistons.
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lmc122
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Posted: 19 Dec 2011 at 3:35pm |
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I also found two bent push rods, are they the same length in all the w series engines, can I take two out of my WC?
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AaronSEIA
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Posted: 19 Dec 2011 at 6:41pm |
Push rods are the same. This is starting to look like a complete overhaul to me. New sleeves and pistons for sure. AaronSEIA
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lmc122
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Posted: 19 Dec 2011 at 7:21pm |
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Final question, will a wc head fit a 45 if it's a 15 bolt head, and will I lose any power if I use it? The WC a 1945.
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wi50
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Posted: 19 Dec 2011 at 7:35pm |
why not put the WC engine in the 45 if it runs fine? Sure it won't have the power but it depends on what you do with the tractor. Most of my old tractors need enough power to pull themselves around the yard and draw 20 hp from the PTO once in a while to twist an auger.
The heads will bolt up with proper hardware. Pushrods are the same, it's the rocker posts that are different. You won't see any power difference.
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"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
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lmc122
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Posted: 19 Dec 2011 at 7:51pm |
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This tractor will be worked mowing, cutting and bailing hay. I have a ten foot bush hug the wc won't pull it. So I'll like to have the extra power. I'm just keeping the wc for parts. If the will work it will save me some money. I'd also like to thank everyone for the advice.
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