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wd timing or gas tractor engine

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HudCo View Drop Down
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Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Location: Plymouth Utah
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    Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 12:39pm
i never thought about this until the other day,  so here at 5000ft. we all run our ignition timing about 4 degrees more on our non computer controlled cars and trucks ,  so what about our tractors ?  or even diesel tractors ?
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Ed (Ont) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed (Ont) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 2:04pm
Interesting. We put smaller jets in the carb on our race motors at higher altitudes but left the timing the same.
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DaveKamp View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2022 at 2:29am
Both adjustments are valid... and for the same reason.

At higher elevation, there's a less dense atmosphere, which means the concentration of oxygen in a given volume of displacement is naturally lower.

The density being lighter means that gross compression will be lower (because starting pressure is lower).  Advancing the spark by four degrees puts the ignition event  farther BEFORE TDC's peak compression point, so you're most likely to get a complete combustion pattern, thus a more complete burn and earlier full chamber pressure before reaching TDC.

Modern ECMs on fuel injection systems automatically compensate for whatever conditrions of altitude throw at us... mixture AND timing are necessary to optimize for power.
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2022 at 6:48am
Maybe and maybe not. Some engines may benefit, others not so much.  Take a WD tractor with 5.5 to 1 compression ratio at 100 psi which is timed at 30 degrees BTDC. I doubt that increasing the timing from 30 to 35 would yield much difference on a fairly low performance engine like that. Then, take a 175 gas tractor with 8.25 to 1 compression at 170 psi which needs to be timed at 22 degrees BTDC to keep detonation in check. There might be an advantage there, but the engine will never perform like it would at sea level timed at 22 degrees.  Some of us older guys are wary of advancing timing on the higher compression gas engines because we have experienced the center main bearing "thump" that comes from too much ignition timing. The "thump" ain't a good thing.  Direct injection diesels with turbochargers are much less affected by the altitude. Direct injection diesels that get the timing advanced are at risk of squirting the fuel over the top of the combustion chamber bowl and over time will burn the top of the piston. Again, some engines react differently than others depending on several things. In-direct inject diesels wouldn't be prone to piston burning, but they are lower performance anyway. So to end my thoughts.....maybe or maybe not.
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HudCo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HudCo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2022 at 9:34am
good answers.      my buddy takes the pulling truck to washington and runns at 1000ft its like adding an extra engine  .  some of my snowmobiles will run about the same at 5000ft and 8000ft  the higher performce engines have a much narrower window on clutching and jetting  they are also 1 to 2 degrees more on the timing.       i had just never thought about doing machinery and equipment any differant than stock specs.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2022 at 11:36pm
Neither timing NOR mixture will ever bring a naturally-aspirated IC engine's power up to equate what it would get at significantly lower altitudes... they'll simply dial-in the details that best suit the context.  Compression and mixture are both dynamic circumstances, and atmospheric density has a profound effect on BOTH.
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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