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"WD 10."..Is it a 1948 WD serial #? |
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Dexter Peabody
Orange Level Joined: 28 Jun 2012 Points: 360 |
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Posted: 25 Aug 2012 at 11:34pm |
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I should have tried to take a photo of the rear differential housing, but the lighting was not good.
I looked for the Serial Number of this WD that I saw on a lot, owned by a friend. STAMPED into the rear differential housing was "WD10". Then, just a little beyond that is what looks like a machine cut out about the height of the numbers, but spaced beyond the WD10 far enough that other numbers COULD have been stamped before reaching this cut out. Again, it is a rectangular cut out, about the height of the letters, but spaced far enough from the WD 10 that it it doesn't look like it was made to alter the serial, because other numbers COULD have been stamped in the space between the WD10 and the beginning of the machined out rectangular box. What do you guys make of that? Is it a 1948, serial #10, or, is it something else, like a 1952? I don't think it is a 1952, because the cutout box is spaced a bit from the WD10 that is stamped into the rear differential housing. The tractor is for sale, so I want to make sure that I have the serial correct. There is a number beginning with 2 on the transmission housing just in front of the shifting handle, on the side facing the fuel tank It has some letters like CP and then ends in KC. What's your opinion? Thanks, Dex Tractor with lots of photos will be posted in classified. Edited by Dexter Peabody - 25 Aug 2012 at 11:35pm |
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CTuckerNWIL
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22816 |
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WD10 would be stamped on the top of the differential housing to the right of the left brake cover.
Allis Chalmers Tractor Serial Number Location Images - WD, WD45
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http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
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Dexter Peabody
Orange Level Joined: 28 Jun 2012 Points: 360 |
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CTuckerNWIL.
The WD10 is stamped where the bottom arrow is in the photo that you provided above. The WD10 is closer to the left in the photo where that bolt is to the far left in the photo, then the cut out is about where the tip of the bottom arrow is. What do you make of that? Is it the 10th WD made in 1948, the tenth WD ever made? Thanks for your help. |
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CTuckerNWIL
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22816 |
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NO. WD number 10 would be stamped on top where the picture shows.
The very early WD's had the serial number stamped next to the left brake access cover opposite the seat.
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http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
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Dexter Peabody
Orange Level Joined: 28 Jun 2012 Points: 360 |
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Thanks, CTuckerNWIL,
I will check that out. I couldn't see anything on the access plate when I looked. I only saw a faint WD10 and then that etched out rectangle where I have described above. Funny that no numbers immediately follow the WD10, before the etched out rectangle begins. I will try to post a photo, too. Thanks, again, Dex |
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B26240
Orange Level Joined: 21 Nov 2009 Location: mn Points: 3860 |
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Dexter when your out there look at the engine s/n -- left side of block behind air cleaner hose. If it is the original engine to the tractor the number will be close to the tractor number. Charlie is right on the info that if it would be #10 the number would be on top of housing next to the cover.
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TedBuiskerN.IL.
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Davis, IL. Points: 1959 |
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That early WD rear end had some weakness problems, and many were changed to the newer style. The serial number was then supposed to be restamped in the new area, but many weren't restamped at all.
There are a few other unique things to a 48, for instance the steering shaft support under the fuel tank would be cast iron. The right foot rest would be like the WC and not have the pedal stop formed into it. The drawbar holddown would not be a strap with two bolts, but a U shaped round rod with holes for cotter pins to hold it in place. Any of those could be a clue to a true 48. Edited by TedBuiskerN.IL. - 26 Aug 2012 at 7:21am |
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Bill Deppe/AC Salvag
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Maquoketa, Iowa Points: 970 |
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Would the serial number be an actual 10, unless restamped, or didn't it begin with three digits, like WD 101, etc?
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MNLonnie
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Baxter MN Points: 4791 |
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WD's actually started at #7.
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CTuckerNWIL
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22816 |
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1948 WD engine number should be in this range. 200775 - 210718 It was a continuation from the WC engines because there weren't any major changes to the engine for the WD |
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http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
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Dexter Peabody
Orange Level Joined: 28 Jun 2012 Points: 360 |
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Thanks guys,
I am on my way over to that WD, take some photos and try to observe some of the suggestions and comments that you made, while standing at the tractor. |
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Dexter Peabody
Orange Level Joined: 28 Jun 2012 Points: 360 |
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Maybe this will help.
I went to the lot where the tractor is located. #1.... There was NO number that I could find where the LONG arrow points in the above B&W Serial # location photo. #2.....this a "fresh from the field" tractor. It has not been cleaned up. Lots of grime. I could not find a number on the side of the engine where the breather is, as suggested above. So that I could match it with any other number as mentioned. The owner said that he would try to clean that spot. THIS is a photo of the "WD10" is stamped... then see the machined, or, etched out rectangle beside it? This number "200931" and " CP - C - KC" are at the base of and the engine side of the gear shift housing. RIGHT SIDE FOOT REST ENGINE # ON RIGHT SIDE LEFT SIDE FOOT REST After seeing these photos, are there any further opinions, or, conclusions? Thank you, guys. I do appreciate it. Dex Edited by Dexter Peabody - 27 Aug 2012 at 1:35am |
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Brian G. NY
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: 12194 Points: 2201 |
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It sure looks to me like someone "eradicated" the last 4 digits of the serial number
for some reason.
The engine number you show in your pics is a casting number.
The engine "serial" number is stamped on a "boss" in back of the carburetor and will begin with WD.
Armed with that number, assuming the engine is original, we can determine the year
of the tractor.
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KGood
Orange Level Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Location: Logansport,IN Points: 955 |
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Something I noticed about my 48 WD is that it has the month/day/year stamped on the inside of the final drive. It does have the smaller foot rest still had the pin hitch when I got it. The brake pedals and hand clutch hanldle were cut off for the corn picker. I never knew that about the steering shaft support I'll check mine out. Mine was bought brand new by my Grandpa in Winamac IN. I don't have the serial # right off but I think it's on top by the cover.
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Dexter Peabody
Orange Level Joined: 28 Jun 2012 Points: 360 |
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By looking at the foot pedals in the above photos, does it lead you to believe that it is a 1948 WD, or, otherwise?
Thanks, Dex |
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Dexter Peabody
Orange Level Joined: 28 Jun 2012 Points: 360 |
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As for the possible "eradication" of the number, leaving only "WD10" visible, what is your supposition as to why that was done?
The paint is consistent, as if the etching out was done, and the entire piece then painted. The entire tractor rear end looks to be of the same age, paint, etc. Grime is constant across the piece. I doubt that it was intended to be a fraudulent alteration, as the etched out part would be very noticeable to anyone with eyesight. Thus, leaving just the "WD10" in the serial # location. It is a mystery to me. It is not my tractor, so I really don't care what it is. I just want to come to you guys, with your knowledge, and be able to properly list his tractor for him on craigslist, or, in this forum. The possibility exists, that if it is actually "WD10" that he will restore it. Edited by Dexter Peabody - 27 Aug 2012 at 1:26pm |
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KGood
Orange Level Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Location: Logansport,IN Points: 955 |
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I doubt it's a 48 because of the later foot rest and the position of the serial #. You never know though It could be replacement housing and someone put newer footrest on it but not likely
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Michael Crowe
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Kansas City Points: 1712 |
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It sure looks to me that you could not stamp another number inbetween the 10 and the grinding using the same spacing. I have seen a 3 digit serial number WD and it was on top, so if this was truly #10, it would be on top as well.
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AC WD45
Orange Level Joined: 28 Sep 2009 Location: Mid Michigan Points: 1993 |
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Looks ground out to me. If it was more consistant like a key way slot when who knows but that is clearly the work of a grinder. It is possible that the rear ent was swapped out at one time or another and they ground that number off so the rear ent year wouldn't change the rest of the tracror
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German Shepherd dad
1957 Allis Chalmers WD45 #WD234847 1951 Allis Chalmers WD #WD88193 |
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Dexter Peabody
Orange Level Joined: 28 Jun 2012 Points: 360 |
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Thanks, guys, for all you input.
As suggested above, I went to the tractor today, and found the serial number of the ENGINE, on a "boss" near the carb. That number was "WD13". Then, some distance from it, were four ground out slots, each about the size of numbers. Four different spaces. Instead of the long rectangular block that I posted above, that had "WD10" on the rear of the tractor. As soon as I finish my dinner tonight, I may upload the photo, or, do so in the morning. Please look at the photo above 0f the gear shift. What is that number? Thank you, Dex Edited by Dexter Peabody - 27 Aug 2012 at 8:58pm |
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CTuckerNWIL
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22816 |
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Since the right side foot rest is not from a 48 and both the engine and tractor number have been ground away, I would say somebody was pulling a scam in the past. There was no WD13 engine number.
I believe that number on the shift tower is a casting number but most of those would be AM-xxxx-xx
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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
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I have a three digit WD, and one other glaring difference is that there is a lot mor space left between the wd letters and where the serial number starts. In a sense, it would be a little like this- yours appears this way
WD 10____ Mine looks more like this- WD___981 If that makes any sense at all
Edited by oldorangeiron - 27 Aug 2012 at 9:37pm |
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Dexter Peabody
Orange Level Joined: 28 Jun 2012 Points: 360 |
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CtuckerNWIL and OldOrangeIron,
I have to take issue with the "scam" speculation, in regard to the serial numbers. From my understanding, this tractor came in from the field in a trade with a friend of mine who owns a very small car and implement lot in rural Ripley County, Missouri. In Ripley County, no one would give you squat for an old Allis Chalmers tractor. Their only concern would be, "does the damn thing run?". If you were going to scam someone, wouldn't you fill in the etched out blocs and paint over them, to make it look like it had not be tampered with? I believe that this tractor has only been traded locally, so no need for a scam, and alteration of serial number. This guy is the same guy who sold me my WD45. He said it was a 1958. That is because it was bought NEW in 1958, so he ASSUMED that it must be 1958 WD45. (There were none made, stopped in 1957, right) Only until I got on here checking my serial number out to find out that it was a 1957, did I know where to look for my serial number. He just got this tractor in on a trade late last week. I checked the place where my serial number is, and it said "WD10". Today, I wiped off a lot of grime, getting some on my dress shirt in the process, and found "WD31" where the engine serial number should be behind the carb. As soon as I downsize the photo, I will upload it. Thanks, but, down here, the serial number don't mean crap. I got interested in the serial number when I found the "WD10" on the rear, shown in the photos above. |
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Dexter Peabody
Orange Level Joined: 28 Jun 2012 Points: 360 |
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Okay, Here is the engine number.... "WD31"....four notched out spaces, then "PA"
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Dexter Peabody
Orange Level Joined: 28 Jun 2012 Points: 360 |
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Here she is, the WD with the questionable serial number and pedigree.
NOW, I don't know a lot, but if someone was attempting to pull a serial number scam on someone, to make this a more valuable WD, I doubt, that they would bolt that tool box, or, wooden beer ice chest onto the side of it, put a special homemade thermos jug holder on the left fender, make an angle iron doo-dad contraption for the front end, and weld a back rest contraption to the back of the seat. Just my opinion. NOTE! the REAR WHEELS are painted YELLOW Thermos holder is round aluminum doo-dad on left fender. Snazzy back rest, welded to seat. What is this number and markings on the gear shift, engine side? The rear, where it says "WD10" then there is the etched out, block beside it. ENGINE # behind car on left side. SO, what year WD is it? I want to know before I put it on Craigslist, and, maybe, this site. I don't want to mislead anyone. Need you all's help. Thanks Edited by Dexter Peabody - 27 Aug 2012 at 10:46pm |
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Don(MO)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Bates City MO. Points: 6862 |
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It's a 1951 or 1952 engine baced on the first two numbers of the six line of numbers on the block. and yes the ser# on the block and ear end of the tractor have been worked over.
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3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.
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KGood
Orange Level Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Location: Logansport,IN Points: 955 |
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I don't know how your going to tell the year. It would be interesting to know why it's like that. Not a bad looking unit either even has wide front.
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Dexter, I sure did not even say a word about the numbers being a scam job. I told you what a three digit number looks like on at least one tractor............mine that I have. You do whatever YOU feel is best, I know i would. I can tell you what MY gut would tell me, especially If someone were telling me its tractor number 10. .......But i will just keep my opinion to myself. My earlier post was not an opinion, it was a fact. There is a difference.
Good Luck.
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jrjuday
Silver Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: n.e. indiana Points: 116 |
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My dad had a WD that was a demonstrator from a dealer that had the serial numbers machined off like that, and it was done by the dealer. He explained why it was done, but that was over 40 years ago, and I cant remember the details. It had something to do with excess inventory and dealer territories.
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Brian G. NY
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: 12194 Points: 2201 |
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jrjuday, that is an interesting possibility. If that was done by A-C in more than just this instance, I'm surprised no one
else has (or has seen) a tractor with the numbers modified this same way.
It seems obvious to me that the last digits of both numbers have been eradicated.
It seems clear that there were digits where the marks are on the engine number.
I tend to agree with Don(MO), it is a '51 or '52.
My '51 WD has a tractor number WD100853 and an engine number WD309267PA.
It has been my experience that the suffix on the engine numbers before approx. 1951 was GA rather than PA.
If that is indeed true, only more reason to assume it is a '51 or '52.
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