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WC to WD to WD45 HP performance upgrades

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jvin248 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jvin248 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: WC to WD to WD45 HP performance upgrades
    Posted: 24 Jan 2022 at 12:29pm
.

I have a few general questions about the product changes that led to the W-program performance improvements.

When I look through the Tractor Data site it shows:
WC = AC 3.3L (gas) and Drawbar (tested) = 22 HP  (pulls 2 bottom plow)
WD = AC 3.3L (gas) and Drawbar (tested) = 30 HP  (n/a bottom plow. 3 in sand/2 in clay?)
WD45 = AC 3.7L (gas) and Drawbar (tested) = 40 HP (pulls 4 bottom plow)

Old advertisements of the WD45 show how the power crater piston and crank throw (giving the 0.4L displacement addition) plus better manifold flow in/out of the engine gives it the performance boost over a regular WD. Were there other contributing factors to its improvement? (transmission gear geometry changes seemed important to reduce whine not increase pulling power). The weight transfer hitch system (other than the coupler ease/speed feature) seemed carryover from WD.

Since the manifold seemed important on WD45, I've noticed there are several different styles of manifolds on Internet tractor photographs, how to tell which is which since manifolds get frequently replaced and likely no longer match original factory versions? Can the WD45 manifold be retrofitted on WD and WC giving those tractors a slight boost? Which manifold should be avoided when replacing a WD45 or even WD manifold to not choke back its horsepower?

Likewise, what were the changes from the WC to the WD horsepower increase? I have not found the old marketing materials for WD yet.

(We had an early WD narrow-front on the farm when I was a kid and I've recently picked up a wide-front 52 WD project tractor. Both gas, as we had no diesel equipment on the farm. The old farm WD only did sickle bar mowing and maybe some wagon work that I remember, not having a three point like the other tractors. There were a couple of trip-type pull style two and three bottom plows around but my folks had a bigger five bottom machine by then to pull through the clay on the farm.)

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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2022 at 6:07pm
Every time there was a HP increase, it was done by raising the compression ratio, using higher octane fuel, increasing RPM's or a larger carburater. The largest cubic inch displacement was 226. The WD-45 had 6.5 to 1 compression ratio at 1400 RPM's. The D-17 engine was 7.25 to 1 at 1650 RPM's etc. Same goes for the W-series.
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Ed (Ont) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed (Ont) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2022 at 7:53pm
WD45 engine was 226 cid. WD was 201cid. So the metric designation when discussing them makes it a bit funny. Now if we are talking about an engine designed to metric standard then use that designation like a Chev 6.0 litre.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2022 at 8:40pm
Drawbar horsepower has much more contributing than just engine output.  As doc says, compression and fuel quality, engine RPM were the most obvious factors that changed as  a result of time, but keep in mind:

Drawbar horsepower is about Tractive effort, and ground speed... because
work = force * distance
and
Power = Work * Time.

Pull a draft load of 33,000lbs one foot, in one minute, you have one horsepower...
If you pull a 2 pound load 33000ft in one minute, you also have one horsepower.

Thus, an engine that develops a given amount of torque at one speed, and can manage to develop the same amount of torque at some RPM rate HIGHER, will be mathematically developing more horsepower... because the rate at which that work is being done, is increasing.

With drawbar horsepower, the first limitation is tractive effort.  Doesn't matter how much power you can develop under the hood, if there's not enough tractive capability to PUT that power to work, you will have no improvement in drawbar horsepower.  Likewise, you cannot consider the usefulness of drawbar horsepower at some speed which your implement will work.  A tractor might be pulling with a modest force, and able to do it at 32mph makes the calculated advertised drawbar horsepower very high... but you can't plow a field at 32mph... regardless of how careful you are, you'll not have a quality result... but if you don't have enough tractive effort to do it at 16, or 8, or 4mph, then the draft horsepower numbers will be pointless regardless.

So the point here is, that PRACTICAL drawbar horsepower ratings are based on general realm of the types of field work which a farmer would be accomplishing the types of work that were most demanding of drawbar load... and this is one of the reasons why you see drawbar horsepower ratings, and THEN you see PLOW type ratings.  Of course, loamy soil in north central illinois is not the same as Georgia clay, so the size and quantity of tillage elements is a variable, too.

If you add a thousand pounds to each driven tire, your tractive effort will increase by 330lbs per tire.  Why?  Because tractive effort is a function of compactive force (into the soil with a bar lug) and pushing against it (compressive draft).  The Wismer-Luth Agricultural Traction report illustrates how wheel diameter and wheel load affect drawbar horsepower.  A larger diameter tire has both lower rolling resistance, it also develops a greater surface area and lesser cosine angle to the ground.

Finally, duty cycle.  You can run a WD engine at 25hp all day, any day, and as long as it has oil, coolant, fuel, and an effective cooling and exhaust/intake, it will run indefinitely.  Once you reach a certain load, it will start to generate more heat, in which case the cooling system will need to shed the heat off.

IF a cooling system can't keep an engine cool, it's power output will suffer greatly.  This is the difference between a 345hp engine under the hood of a Dodge 1500 pickup, and 345hp in the diesel engine under the hood of an over-the-road truck.  The little pickup presents very little load, so the engine isn't running hard, nor is it running hot.  A tractor trailer, climbing Donner Pass WILL be working for a long time, getting very warm, and in dire need of as much cooling help they can get.  It will most likely run out of thermal waste shedding ability... it will overheat... while there's still a significant amount  of throttle available in the fuel rack.
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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HudCo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HudCo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2022 at 8:47pm
yaeh me no speak metric very good ,  how much differance did the taller head make in the horsepower my 201 wd has the tall head
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2022 at 8:56pm
None.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 6:18am
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jvin248 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 11:25am
.

Thanks so far guys.

The metric engine Liters are off the Tractor Data website, it's what they had so that is what I used.
When I went to Engineering school (US) we did it all in metric, when I worked in automotive (US) we used metric. It tended to reduce errors. I'd chuckle when someone had dimensioned a drawing or part at '25.4mm' because they just had a one inch long feature and weren't really fooling anyone.

I'm curious about the physical design factors AC changed through the run of those tractors.

Compression ratio information is interesting. The WD45 seems like that was accomplished through piston geometry and crank throw, maybe head geometry changes, but what did they do between WC and WD?

Flow through the manifolds, discussed in the WD45, would reduce restrictions and allow better control or handle a larger carburetor more effectively.

Were gear ratios changed in the drive train? They introduced helical gearing to reduce noise on the WD45s but did they also up the effective pulling power with the gear changes?

Seemed like generally the same tire diameters, though widths may have changed.

So could putting a WD45 engine in a WC (assuming bolt patterns fit) give you everything of a WD45 except transmission whine? What are the fewest upgrades on a WC that would be needed to get to WD45 performance? Crank, Pistons, Manifold, Carburetor, and Timing? Roughly 20% more pulling capability at each model change of that line WC-WD-WD45.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 12:24pm
WC to WD mainly raised compression, a couple of different manifolds and carbs, RPM increased by 100 RPM and kerosene to gasoline fuel.  WD-45 more stroke (25 more cubic inches), compression, power crater bowl pistons, better manifold, larger carb and air cleaner. Cylinder head was changed in the later WD's for better cooling and that was the same on the WD-45's.  Helical gear transmissions made three improvements: stronger and capable of more torque, faster road gear and a slower low gear, and much quieter. WD-45 power in a WC ??  The gear ratios are faster all the way thru on a WC, so when you're plowing in second gear with a WD-45 engine at it's rated RPM, you're going faster than a WD-45 chassis would be. A-C pretty much made plow gear 3.5 MPH because that's what worked. As rear tires get wider, the usually always get taller even tho there are still on 28 inch rims, which makes each gear a little faster yet. So, until you have the same rear tire size and overall weight (5000 lbs) on your WC, it will never pull like a WD-45.
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