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WC rearend strength

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DaveKamp View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Location: LeClaire, Ia
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    Posted: 19 Mar 2019 at 11:11am
Hi Guys/Gals...

While this isn't part of building a competition puller, it's a situation where you puller-types will know at least SOME of the answers to my questions... henceforth, I'm posting it here.

I'm in need of a general-purpose machine that's all-wheel driven, with tall tires. Just so happens, that I have two mid '40's WC rearends, a hydraulic 4spd transaxle from a combine, and a matching hydrostatic pump that I've already fitted to a 230ci Chevy six.  I have a dozen hydraulic pumps and a supply of great hydraulic rams, as well as a spare cab and a couple steering valves... basically, a really good start on parts.

When i say 'general purpose'... that means I'd use it in every season, fighting snow, moving dirt, rocks, navigating muddy driveway, dragging tree trunks... basically, going places and doing things that I can't do with my forklifts or conventional tractors.  I'd fit it with a quick-removable tool-handler on one end (for forklift mast) stanchions for fully-hydraulic front end loader at the other.  the tool holder will be handling a large V-blade, and a trenching boom, probably a larger backhoe attachment (than the one I'm currently using on my D17). 

My primary question is WC rearend strength... and not just in gear drive/traction capacity, but physical durability.


Obviously, there's a limit to how much weight, and how much force the WC rearend can withstand.  I expect that I'll need to add some gusset and reinforcement, but no matter how I do that, I'll still be limited to the capacity of the wheel, hub, and bolt pattern.

No better people to ask first, than the people who'd be most likely to bust stuff, right?

What's the weak parts of the WC rear axle?  If I make it carry say... 8500lbs of vertical load, is it gonna shear off at the hubs?  Lug nuts?  axle to reduction joint?
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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WF owner View Drop Down
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Location: Bombay NY
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2019 at 9:31pm
We have a local guy that has a Chevy 6 cylinder in a WC that he pulls with. He seems to have a lot of rear end problems. 

From what I have heard, his problem comes from the rear end flexing in the middle. He has started reinforcing it with a framework built across the rear end to stop the flexing.
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DaveKamp View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2019 at 10:18pm
Hi Curt!

Okay, so... is he reinforcing between the final drives, or does he truss the bottom of the differential (like we used to do with the Dana 44's in Scouts two decades ago?)

Any broken spindles, hubs, or lug nuts?
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2019 at 5:43am
Let me see if I can stop in and visit with him on the next week. He only lives about 10 miles from me. I would rather get it straight from him, so I'm not telling you something wrong. I haven't got a chance to talk to him in a while and I'm always up for a good visit!
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DaveKamp View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2019 at 6:27pm
Cool, thanks Curt!

Specifically, I'm concerned that once I get this thing built, that my lifting loads (either from forklift, or loader, or the counterweights used, etc., would cause me to discover limitations of the axle assembly.  I have no fear of putting a large truss between the final drives, matter of fact, I expect that I'll have the lift-arms (probably provision it at both ends) mounted there, and they'd be at LEAST Category II, probably Category III.  My first thought is that the final drives' attachment to the axle tubes, or the spindles, hubs, and lug nuts would be the first limitation, but I could be wrong.  I figure that if someone's busted them parts, the guy would be a puller.
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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MACK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2019 at 9:39pm
Final drive gears are weak. Ring and pinion are stout. Transmission gears are weak.        MACK
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DaveKamp View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2019 at 11:23pm
Thanks Mack... I would not be using the WD transmission... I'd be using ring and pinion, and final drives.  I would NOT be putting insane horsepower to the gears, but the vertical load would be substantial... I'm estimating upwards of 6000lbs... and if the tires are full of fluid, that would increase the amount of torque appearing on the vertical axis of the final drive gearboxes as it articulates.  From a physical strength standpoint, do those final drive HOUSINGS break, or deflect enough to cause the gears to lose proper mesh?
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AaronSEIA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2019 at 5:56am
No way would I put 6,000 lbs of load on top of a WC rear end.  Heck, a good heavy all terrain forklift probably isn't rated for much more than 4,000. 
AaronSEIA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2019 at 6:07am
I built a reversed D17 forklift 35 years ago that weighed 10K and then would carry 5K on the forks. It isn't a WC, but it's never failed anything on the rear axles.
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DaveKamp View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2019 at 9:49pm
Aaron- I identified 6,000 on the axle because the mast is 1400lbs, and a 4000lb load, plus reaction load of a lift of 4k at a 45" load center means my counterweight at 96" comes to about 2000lbs, not taking into account that the 1400lb mast is 13" behind the wheels...  With a chassis weight of 3000lbs, the simple load ocmes to 3000+2000+1400+4000= 10,400lbs.

Basic physics of a forklift, is that when you lift a load that results in NO weight on the steer axle, that means that ALL the machine's load is on the drive axle... OR... the load is still touching the ground.  That loading gets really big, really fast.

If I were to work backwards under the assumption that the rearend could handle say... 4000lbs... then as soon as I hung the mast on the back, with no counterweight, the front wheels would be barely touching the ground... effectively, zero capacity.

I'm certain that axle assembly had enough heft to carry some implement load... but the question is... how MUCH, and at what point, and where did it run into critical circumstance.

There's two obvious failure modes-  the first is when something breaks.  The castings, probably highest stress point would be where the axle bolts to the final drives.  A stout gusset between the final drives may be enough to keep the wheels from 'splaying' under load, and if so, will the spindles and wheel mounting faces handle the load?

Next... would there be enough deflection in the final drive housings to malign the reduction gearing?  My gut feeling is that if there ever IS enough deflection, that the housings would break as soon as there was a slight bump.

But since nobody's really mentioned it, my guess is that the foundry work is pretty svelte...
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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