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Coke 
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 Topic: Waiting for Winter Diesel
Posted: 21 Oct 2020 at 11:00am |
So I'm trying to be smarter about it this year.
Most other years I forget about winterized diesel, fill the tank on my D17 in summer, and end up pouring in a bottle of Stanadyne come the colder months. This year I'm down to just over a quarter tank, and the stickers on our diesel pumps say the winter blend comes November.
Anyone in the know about how accurate this is? I've got a couple of the local Casey's where I usually go for gas that also have a diesel pump, but there's also a big truck stop by the Interstate close by, which see's a lot of diesel business. So I imagine it's diesel turnover is faster.
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1957 D17 Diesel w/ M&W Pistons
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TomC
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Posted: 21 Oct 2020 at 11:24am |
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Go to your local farm store,buy Howes diesel fuel treatment. It should be 12 to 15 bucks at a store, truckstop will be twice that. I ran it in my over the road trucks, my pickups & tractors, good stuff, I never froze up using it and yes I'd be in Minnesota or the Dakota's in January. I believe they called it a forced dispatch but I was there.
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PaulB
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Posted: 21 Oct 2020 at 11:42am |
You can never be sure of how the fuel at stations is treated. The kid at the cash register doesn't have a clue when you ask him how it's treated. If you have fuel delivered, there's a better chance its treated for the upcoming conditions. I ALWAYS add the recommended amount of POWER SERVICE brand treatment (winter or summer) when I get fuel, wherever that may be. to be sure that the cleaner component in in my fuel all year round and the Ainti-gel in the cooler months. Treating the fuel first is always easier that un-gelling fuel on the side of road.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 21 Oct 2020 at 3:08pm |
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Hope the cold holds off somewhat longer so the blended fuel is not needed but if stocking up I would wait a bit before getting blended fuel . Truck outfit I was working for dumped a load of fuel into their tank and it was not blended right for the amount of fuel in their tank , about 50 trucks with jelled filters one cold morning 10 MPH limp to get #1 fuel to mix in truck tank and 20 MPH limp back to shop to get filters changed
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
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Ed (Ont)
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Posted: 21 Oct 2020 at 8:24pm |
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If you are in trouble with gelled fuel add gasoline. Just don’t add too much. We helped lots of hiway guys coming from the south that got caught in our cold north.
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HD6GTOM
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Posted: 21 Oct 2020 at 9:47pm |
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Coke, I always started blending my fuel the 1st week of October. Anything north of the Iowa Minnesota border should be running almost straight #1 fuel after Dec 1st. Truck stop/ convenience store diesel will not usually be premium #2 diesel. We have a couple of mom and pop stations here that stock straight #1 fuel. I always fill a couple of 5 gallon cans and pour it in the 200. Always leave the tank less than 1/4 tank in Oct.
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shameless dude
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Posted: 21 Oct 2020 at 10:01pm |
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i have everything here treated in their tanks. figgered it was nicer out to do it early than later in the cold. the "machine" tanks is even treated!
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klinemar
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Posted: 22 Oct 2020 at 4:55am |
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I have my Diesel Fuel tank topped off every November and add the appropriate amount of Power Service to the tank. Sometimes I will add some to each machines tanks if we are going to have a cold spell. My machines are not used frequently as they were when I was milking cows. I had the 185 gel up when moving snow one cold winter. Sat in the driveway for 2 days before I could get fuel to move through it. Not fun working in sub zero weather!
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DMiller
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Posted: 22 Oct 2020 at 7:14am |
 klinemar wrote:
I have my Diesel Fuel tank topped off every November and add the appropriate amount of Power Service to the tank. Sometimes I will add some to each machines tanks if we are going to have a cold spell. My machines are not used frequently as they were when I was milking cows. I had the 185 gel up when moving snow one cold winter. Sat in the driveway for 2 days before I could get fuel to move through it. Not fun working in sub zero weather! |
I normally do the same just after beginning of November as the supplier here gets blended fuels. I use Howes currently as PS has changed formulae in the last few years and I became less enamored with it. My tank is smallish and I do not buy red fuel but road diesel due to Truck and being able to have fuel on site as needed for other duties without penalty by the Law. Has been exceptionally handy where as have eliminated the 7G will most likely move the tank to up by the house/workshop from the barn and install a pump rather than deal with Gravity as that is all too handy for the miscreants out here. So far only lost one lock and as luck would have it the tank was at last draw of a few to 20 some gallons.
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Coke
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Posted: 22 Oct 2020 at 9:36am |
HD6GTOM wrote:
Coke, I always started blending my fuel the 1st week of October. Anything north of the Iowa Minnesota border should be running almost straight #1 fuel after Dec 1st. Truck stop/ convenience store diesel will not usually be premium #2 diesel. We have a couple of mom and pop stations here that stock straight #1 fuel. I always fill a couple of 5 gallon cans and pour it in the 200. Always leave the tank less than 1/4 tank in Oct. |
I feel like this is important for me to understand. Would you mind defining the #1 and #2? I thought it was like farm diesel vs. road diesel? Back in the UK we have diesel and pink diesel, and I think it's always cold treated.
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1957 D17 Diesel w/ M&W Pistons
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Coke
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Posted: 22 Oct 2020 at 9:43am |
TomC wrote:
Go to your local farm store,buy Howes diesel fuel treatment. It should be 12 to 15 bucks at a store, truckstop will be twice that. I ran it in my over the road trucks, my pickups & tractors, good stuff, I never froze up using it and yes I'd be in Minnesota or the Dakota's in January. I believe they called it a forced dispatch but I was there. |
This stuff? They seem to have it at my local WalMart.
If it treats 320 gallons, I guess it's a couple of ounces per 10 gallon of fuel, should last me a few winters. That's gonna be way cheaper than the Stanadyne stuff.
Looks like they also stock a couple of the POWER SERVICE products, I'm guessing people are talking about the fuel supplement, not the cleaner. Also they have Lucas Oil treatment as well.
Edited by Coke - 22 Oct 2020 at 9:56am
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darrel in ND
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Posted: 22 Oct 2020 at 10:18am |
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I have not ran a drop of #1 fuel in about 3 to 4 years now in any of my diesel tractors, diesel pickup, or my semi. We have a 110 gallon service tank that we fill up at the local cenex coop, and that is what the farm tractors get filled from. And, bar none, that service tank does NOT get filled until some howes diesel conditioner goes in first, so that it gets mixed well. Half bottle in the summer time, and full bottle in the winter time. And we plan ahead, as to not fill the service tank if it is extremely cold. Most often do it if it is above freezing. I feel it mixes better at warmer temps. Haven't had a tractor gel up on that plan yet, knock on wood. And the diesel pickup and semi have to get filled in town, because we run highway fuel in them, and it's as simple as put some howes in before we start filling them, and try our best to fill em on a somewhat warm day. Would probably rather use stanadyne conditioner, but it's just not that readily available, but I guess why change something that is working. Darrel
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Coke
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Posted: 22 Oct 2020 at 10:33am |
I guess that answers my How careful do you have to be with mixes question, if you are pouring a whole bottle into just 110 gallons, I was thinking of adding a half cup to the tank and then drop in 10 gallons of diesel on top.
Why do you avoid #1 diesel?
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1957 D17 Diesel w/ M&W Pistons
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Tbone95
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Posted: 22 Oct 2020 at 10:42am |
Coke wrote:
I guess that answers my How careful do you have to be with mixes question, if you are pouring a whole bottle into just 110 gallons, I was thinking of adding a half cup to the tank and then drop in 10 gallons of diesel on top.
Why do you avoid #1 diesel?
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Probably CO$T!
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Coke
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Posted: 22 Oct 2020 at 10:46am |
Yeah, I've just been reading up on it. So #1 isn't treated, it's just a better grade of diesel with a lower gelling point and more stored energy, but it reads like it's also more volatile and a waste of money if your engine isn't pulling the extra energy from it? So winter diesel costs more? I find it hard to track fuel prices since this millenia started it just seems to go up and up and up, and then plummet, and then start over.
So it's better to get the cheaper diesel and treat it, than it is to wait for winter?
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1957 D17 Diesel w/ M&W Pistons
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 22 Oct 2020 at 1:12pm |
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#1 has less BTU's. Less power on straight #1
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Tbone95
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Posted: 22 Oct 2020 at 1:21pm |
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About 3% less.....wouldn't think that significantly enough to be a deciding factor.
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darrel in ND
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Posted: 22 Oct 2020 at 2:17pm |
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Could be I'm wrong, but I've heard that #1 doesn't have the lubrication that #2 does. Darrel
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TomC
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Posted: 22 Oct 2020 at 7:23pm |
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Correct, # 1 fuel is thinner, #2 thicker so more lubrication. I have mixed #1 in with #2 or winter blend but I never did run straight #1. I froze up one time in 46 years,fueled here in Missouri, got to the old Boondock truck stop in iowa,temp dropped to something like 18 below, after that, I made a point of either getting winter blend or putting maybe 30% # 1 in.. or I'd buy a quart of howes,put half in each tank and keep trucking. Never had a problem with it again. I'm retired so no more big truck, but my tractors and my one ton get regular doses of howes. Good stuff.
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shameless dude
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Posted: 22 Oct 2020 at 10:02pm |
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some gas stations will pour a bunch of them howes bottles down into the ground tanks and call it blended fuel.
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Coke
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Posted: 24 Oct 2020 at 6:25pm |
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I can get the Howes at my weekly Walmart shop, think I'm gonna pour a Solo cups worth in the tank add the diesel and call it done.
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1957 D17 Diesel w/ M&W Pistons
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TomC
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Posted: 24 Oct 2020 at 7:58pm |
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Yes sir, that's the stuff,don't worry about putting to much in it won't hurt a thing, just dump it in and run it for a while to be sure it gets through the whole system, you should be good to go
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 24 Oct 2020 at 8:52pm |
45yrs ago the township would get #2 cut with #1 for grader snowplow. I think it was 50/50 but can't be sure. Winter blend reduces fuel mileage in my semi. Part of that may be just the denser air .
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Coke
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Posted: 27 Oct 2020 at 5:58pm |
You think my diesel / kerosene torpedo heater might benefit from some Howes?
I traded a guy a snow shovel for a lawn tractor for it, it's always been a bit on the smokey side.
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TomC
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Posted: 27 Oct 2020 at 6:03pm |
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If you are running straight diesel in your heater I'd say yes put some howes in there, but if your running kerosene in it I don't think it will gell up on you.
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TomC
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Posted: 27 Oct 2020 at 6:11pm |
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Number one diesel IS kerosene I believe. We used to dump 15 or 20 gallons of kerosene in each saddle tank if we couldn't get our hands on winter blend fuel. Numder one doesn't have much lubrication as numder two so I wouldn't get to carried away with the number one. That fuel is a 20 below & I absolutely have to get there fuel
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Lars(wi)
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Posted: 27 Oct 2020 at 6:40pm |
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If you torpedo heater is smoky, or leaves a haze in the air, it’s not burning clean. Use straight #1 or kerosene.
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I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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Coke
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Posted: 28 Oct 2020 at 8:07am |
TomC wrote:
Number one diesel IS kerosene I believe. |
I did not know that, but the Google confirms it!
Kerosene is a lighter diesel oil than #2, hence why it is designated as #1 diesel. The lighter weight means it contains slightly less energy – about 135,000 BTU per gallon vs. ... Kerosene doesn't contain very high levels of aromatic compounds; they typically get concentrated in the #2 and heavier diesel fuel oils.
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
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Posted: 04 Nov 2020 at 2:18am |
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Google is wrong. Kerosene never has been diesel and never will be. It is more refined and lighter than #1 diesel with fewer BTUs.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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PaulB
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Posted: 04 Nov 2020 at 10:28am |
Brian Jasper co. Ia wrote:
Google is wrong. Kerosene never has been diesel and never will be. It is more refined and lighter than #1 diesel with fewer BTUs. |
WRONG!!! Google is right I hauled bulk petroleum for many years. As cold weather approached, when some place wanted winter blend it would start with a blend of 80% diesel and 20% kerosene. This was done while loading the trailer. The smaller precentage in the tank first, then the remainder. The same thing gets done many times for Mid Grade gasolines, unless the retail place has blender pumps. This blending was only done at a customer's request, otherwise diesel would be diesel. Some place would put a treatment into the tank first then the 7500 gallons of diesel would go in. As the weather got colder the percentage of kerosene would increase. If anyone wanted #1 diesel it would come from the loading arm for Kerosene. At many tank farms that also supplied major airports this was the Jet Fuel loading arm, Jet fuel being nothing more than highly filtered kerosene. Today's #2 ULSD is the same as #2 kerosene was 50 years ago before the EPA reduced the sulfur content. Just look at the chemical specifications. What throws a monkey wrench into the mix is the BioDiesel it completely changes the interaction of the pour point reducers to the fuel. The best thing you can do is use a quality winter treatment that you like when you purchase fuel, weather you have it delivered in bulk or get it retail. That assures you that you have winterized fuel to run in winter. The only exception would be fuel from a supplier that has a history of suppling consistent quality fuel for the weather expected.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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