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Value of burned ac's

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JohnCO View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 Mar 2011 at 10:09pm
I got a call from the owner of the two AC's that burned a week or so ago.  A fairly early D17 and a D14, didn't look at the sn's.  They got hot as the tires are pretty much burned off but I wonder how bad the insides would be.  I tried to post the pics earlier but didn't do a good job.  I had offered scrap price for them, any idea what that would be?
TIA 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2011 at 6:30am
D-14 weighs in about 3500# from what I recall, 500# WAS tires ! If local scrap is $200 per ton, only worth $300-350. I'd offer that, max out at $400 , and be smiling all the way home if I got it for $400.Great source of parts,if not rebuildable,'easy' to sell off the good stuff.Remeber though , times are tough, and ther's more 'scrap haulers' now than ever, so they will NOT last long! I'd grab the D-14 if I was closer !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChuckLuedtkeSEWI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2011 at 8:36am
Someone on here about a year ago rebuilt a WD45 if I remember right that had burned.   Hopefully he will see the post.   I would think if just the tires got it, and didn't completely burn off, you should be ok.   I would see if either of them still turn over.   Like Jay said they are a good source of parts, and if they were in running condition before the fire, I wouldn't hesitate to give a hair over scrap for both of them.   Push comes to shove, you got alot of really good parts to help everyone else's projects out, and the whole tractor doesn't end up in China.   I'd even go so far as to take a good starter over there if you got something off of one of yours that would bolt up, and jump it with some new wires and a new battery and see if you can either to turn over.   If they turn over and oil pressure comes up on the guage(if still there)   I would think it wouldn't take much to get them up and going.   Might have some seals here and there to replace cause of the heat but that you can work on over time.     Good luck. 
1955 WD45 diesel 203322 was my dad's tractor, 1966 D15 23530, 1961 HD3 Crawler 1918, 1966 D17 IV 83495, 1937 WC 41255, 1962 D19 6221
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wbecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2011 at 10:04am
I had a VAO Case that burned right after filling the tank. It burned the tires off, all the fuel burned, it looked like scap. Nothing was hurt internaly, just needed cleaning, new tank, paint, and all the wires.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC WD45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2011 at 10:14am
Remember, those blocks are meant to get hot, they are built to withstand a lot of heat, and I'm sure they'd mbe worth a couple hundred, even more. A guy on ATF is rebuilding a John Deere D that was nothing more than a rear axel housing when he found it, then before he could pick it up a construction company burried it. He had them dig it upa nd now he's going to rub it in their faces when it's new again. In other words, if you've got a frame, IT CAN BE RESTORED. it just depends on how much work you plan to put into it. I know a guy who re built an Oliver 77 after his barn burned. Still uses it on his farm today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlenninPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2011 at 11:28am
It depends on how long it was in the fire. If the seals inside didn't burn up, it is probably cosmetic, wires and tires.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2011 at 12:07pm
Yep, I agree... cosmetic- wires, tires, and paint.  As long as they haven't been sitting so long that they're seized up, I'd say check the oil, check seals, roll it over a few times, roll 'em into the shop and dig in... once you can see what'ya got, THEN decide what to do.  I'm certain they'd be worth more than scrap iron value.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ToddSin NY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2011 at 2:57pm
Make sure when your working on them to leave the cover alls in the shop. That burn smell will carry in to the house in them and is very hard to get out!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HagerAC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2011 at 3:56pm
I am in the process of rebuilding a super 88 oliver diesel that was in a fire, and nothing was hurt bad, just new wiring, had the fuel pump rebuilt, and tires and soon paint.  I would say these tractors you are looking at may have a chance to be rebuilt also.
30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnCO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2011 at 4:43pm
The owner called back this morning, wanted $800 for both.  I said OK.  Took my hook lift bed and trailer over, her SIL is supposed to take the farmhand loader off and load them for me.  The D14 is the worst, it was at the back of the barn behind the D17.  The aluminum on the engine all melted, plugs even broke, probably from the water the fire dept sprayed on them.  I've got a D14 with a bad 3d gear, hopefully this one will be better. Rims may be ok but they aren't PA.  Hard to say about much of the rest but the castings should be ok.  The D 17 fared better, although the tires are burned off it the front of the tractor is much better, the engine doesn't look bad, dash is burned but I'm thinking the insides of the transmission are ok. Oil looked alright. I'll look them over a lot more when I get them home but at this point I'm thinking the D14 is parts at best but the D17 might be restore-able. I'll take more pics and MAYBE figure out how to get my computer to post them.  Thanks for all your advice, I may have paid a bit too much but at least they won't be on a slow boat to China in the near future at least. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChuckLuedtkeSEWI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2011 at 6:16pm
John, if you want to email me the pictures, I would post them.   Itching to take a peek at them!!
1955 WD45 diesel 203322 was my dad's tractor, 1966 D15 23530, 1961 HD3 Crawler 1918, 1966 D17 IV 83495, 1937 WC 41255, 1962 D19 6221
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChuckLuedtkeSEWI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2011 at 6:17pm
By the way, I may have to pay you a visit next year.  My niece is getting married in Denver next August and we're gonna make a road trip out there for the wedding.  
1955 WD45 diesel 203322 was my dad's tractor, 1966 D15 23530, 1961 HD3 Crawler 1918, 1966 D17 IV 83495, 1937 WC 41255, 1962 D19 6221
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnCO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2011 at 9:49pm
Chuck, Our show is the fourth weekend (plus Friday) of August, so if you can get your daughter to plan the wedding right, you can hang out with us and 200 plus tractors. Not as many AC's as I'd like but a good selection.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnCO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2011 at 10:28pm
file:///Users/john/Desktop/100_2096.JPG

Edited by JohnCO - 20 Mar 2011 at 10:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChuckLuedtkeSEWI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 5:55am
Here are some pictures that John sent me:
 
 
 
 
1955 WD45 diesel 203322 was my dad's tractor, 1966 D15 23530, 1961 HD3 Crawler 1918, 1966 D17 IV 83495, 1937 WC 41255, 1962 D19 6221
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B26240 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 7:15am
Just my thot if they burned inside a building they are junk if they were outsid then you may have a rebuildable tractor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Calvin Schmidt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 7:26am
My uncle had a WD-45 burn in a barn fire in 1964. It was rebuilt and served him well until it was lost for the second time in a shed fire in 2002. He was badly burnt saving his D-17iv and died of a heart attack a month later in hospital. Had he survived, I would have rebuilt his tractor a second time. It takes a lot of heat to cause a lot of internal damage.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 9:06am
Judging by the thin quantity and distribution of charred debris, it looks like there wasn't much barn to burn... probably worst thing goin' was the tractor tires and whatever fuel was still in the tank.  Oftentimes, if there's a rubber hose in the fuel line, that'll burn through, and burn under the tractor... that's when it's a good thing to have the fuel petcock shut off, or an empty fuel tank.

If there's still oil in the sumps, it didn't get that hot... and it didn't get that close.  It takes lots of heat, and a LONG exposure time, to get the heavy iron castings so hot that the oil burns out.

Lookie that sheet metal- the Allis-Chalmers emblem is still visible through!   That's one awesome loader... wonder what the upper lift limit is... gotta be pretty darned tall.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnCO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 11:38am
Thanks Chuck for posting the pics.
There were 500 bales of hay stored in the barn.  They pulled it out with a loader during the fire.  City of Longmont Fire dept. got there pretty fast and poured a lot of water onto it, turned it over to the Hygiene Volunteer Dept. after they got it knocked down.  I don't know if there was much gas in the tanks, would think they would have blown up if very full.  the back of the D14 is the worse, the tube on the post hole digger actually bent with the heat.  Looks like the back of the barn got hotter.  No one knows what started the fire, neither tractor had been run for months, maybe a short in the D14?  There have been some car arson fires within a couple miles in the last few weeks.  The Farmhand loader, which the SIL is getting, will lift about 15'.  They were pretty popular around this area.  I'm thinking the D17 is fixable, the D 14 is just parts.

Edited by JohnCO - 21 Mar 2011 at 11:46am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skipwelte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 4:40pm
Rule of thumb on burned,  if there is oil in the sumps, then its probably ok internally.  If they are boiled dry, pure iron bacuse of the temper of the metal.  this is from an old time salvage dealer years ago and I would say it holds true today.   Good luck John.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TerrySWIA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 5:43pm
Those pictures bring back memories. A few years ago I had a very large and expensive fire. I lost, my shop, all my tools, and several trucks and tractors. Worst of all, I had no insurance. So I tried to clean up and save anything I could. To do it over again, I would have never tried, I would of hauled it all in for junk. That fire makes every thing brittle and takes the tempur out of the steel. I've cleaned up my tools, to where you can't tell them from new, but if you put any pressure on them, they snap. I wish you good luck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pat the Plumber CIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 10:50pm
John are you sure that is a D-17? Could not make out shifter lever on tranny. Straight or curved.Seat may be in the way and I cannot see.
I am supposed to be going Elk hunting up by Fort Collins area in late Oct. Are you anywhere near?

Edited by Pat the Plumber CIL - 21 Mar 2011 at 10:51pm
You only need to know 3 things to be a plumber;Crap rolls down hill,Hot is on the left and Don't bite your fingernails

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnCO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 11:34pm
Pat, I'm about 50 miles south of Ft. Collins.  Send me a PM when the time get's nearer and we can figure a time to meet.
I'm sure it's a D17 because I could still see the decal on the left side.  With the loader it looks bigger, would have been nice if it was a D19 as I already have two 17s. 


Edited by JohnCO - 21 Mar 2011 at 11:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote leeyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2011 at 12:25am
I would think if just the tires got it, and didn't completely burn off, you should be ok. ..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Long Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2011 at 12:31am
I fully agree with Skip and others above.  If there is oil in the sump the engine and transmission should be good. 
We did get a B that was in a fire and Pop rebuilt it.  Ran fine.  Pop did not want to sell it cause he thought it may have damage in the bearings.  We used it in our Victory Garden - remember them in WWII - till we got such good offers for it we sold it. 
Great find though and a very good price.  Let us know how it goes.
Good Luck!
Bill Long
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