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Jimadelmacy 
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Joined: 17 Jul 2022
Location: Farmington, ME
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 Topic: Trying to move the idiot light bulb
Posted: 17 Jul 2022 at 9:50pm |
Hi to all guys and gals I just signed up to your forum. I have been looking over the internet for roughly three weeks now for some help with the alternator issue on my 1956 Allis Chalmers model B. It has a distributor ignition, and a Delco 10SL alternator. For over 20 years I had a 1156 bulb and socket attached to the 12 volt battery stud on my alternator and it worked just fine. The thing is, when anyone walks up to the tractor, I get asked, "what's with the light bulb?" Then I have to explain what an idiot light is, and how it works. So I moved the light, and added a smaller 1816 bulb to the amp gauge box. After moving the bulb, and starting the tractor. The bulb won’t go out and the system does not charge. If I disconnect it, and place the 1156 back on the alternator. It will charge just fine again. My guess is that my 1816 bulb is not large enough, or have enough resistance to excite the alternator. I really want to use the light bulb along with the amp gauge. For some reason, If I bypass the light bulb it won't charge ether. A read somewhere that using a momentary switch will excite the alternator. I wasn't so sure where to place it and if it would fry my alternator. Another suggestion was to add a resistor. I couldn't get a definite answer on what size resister would work and where to place it. Any help would be appreciated. I uploaded two sketches. The first picture is the old set up that second is the new. I hope the pictures loaded okay. Thanks Jim  
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steve(ill)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
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Posted: 17 Jul 2022 at 9:59pm |
you can use a 10 ohm, 10 watt resistor... They are about 3/8 inch square and 2 inches long... Cost about $2.
you can use the same ignition switch or Toggle for the coil and the alternator...
Edited by steve(ill) - 17 Jul 2022 at 10:04pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 17 Jul 2022 at 10:02pm |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Jimadelmacy
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Location: Farmington, ME
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Posted: 17 Jul 2022 at 10:23pm |
That was great, thanks for the quick reply. I looked at your drawing and added a resister to where it think it is supposed to go on my tractor. I gave it my best guess. Please take a look and see if I got it right.
Thanks again Jim 
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 17 Jul 2022 at 10:45pm |
no, the resistor goes in the #1 wire from the switch to the alternator..
is that circle in the alternator the BIG TERMINAL on the back ?? That should have like a 10 or 8 gauge wire to CHARGE the battery.... and the #2 terminal is jumpered to it for power... not #1 terminal... #1 gets power THRU the resistor from the ignition switch.
look closer at the #1 and #2 wires on my alternator..
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 17 Jul 2022 at 10:53pm |
more like this... but you have the TOGGLE also on the MAIN CHARGE wire for the alternator... you dont need to shut it off... you CAN if you want, if your toggle will handle the alternator current ..
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Jimadelmacy
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Posted: 17 Jul 2022 at 11:09pm |
Yes the circle on the alternator is the is the big terminal. the blue
wires are 10 gauge the black wires are 18 gauge. Sorry, It looks like I
have the 1 and 2 wires shown on the wrong locations. The tractor is not
set up that way. It's late and I was drawing from memory. 
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Jimadelmacy
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Posted: 17 Jul 2022 at 11:11pm |
Well i was close. Thanks I got it now. I am tired. I am off to bed. sorry for the confusion. Just one thing do I loose the light bulb?
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tractorboy
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Location: southern Va
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Posted: 18 Jul 2022 at 7:16am |
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Welcome, I ran a exciter wire to the headlights . Been trouble free for 15 years, just gotta remember to momentarily turn the headlights on after starting. On a wd45. Keith so. Va.
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ac55tractor
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Location: Raymond, Maine
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Posted: 18 Jul 2022 at 7:28am |
That's a great idea. Thanks. I'll have Jim get the resistors coming. I thought that the momentary switch was a bit extreme.
Steve
Edited by ac55tractor - 01 Aug 2022 at 9:43pm
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 18 Jul 2022 at 8:05am |
NO.....your drawing shows the resistor in the 10 gauge POWER WIRE to the alternator.... The resistor should go in the BLACK 18 gauge signal wire to #1 terminal on the alternator..
You might be able to use the idiot light with the resistor.. You could try in in parallel with the resistor, and then try in series to see if it works correctly.
Edited by steve(ill) - 18 Jul 2022 at 8:12am
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ac55tractor
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Posted: 18 Jul 2022 at 8:47am |
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Thanks for your reply Steve. Is it okay to have full time power to the alternator?
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 18 Jul 2022 at 8:56am |
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YES... the BIG TERMINAL on the alternator should be HOT from the amp meter all the time... the #1 small terminal is switched ON and OFF by the ignition key or toggle...The resistor drops the 12v to the #1 terminal just enough to KICK IN and make it start charging.
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ac55tractor
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Posted: 18 Jul 2022 at 10:29am |
Thanks Steve, You are a life saver. I will have Jim wire the system as shown, and I will get back to the forum with the results. He will have to also take into consideration trying the resistor in parallel or in series to see if it works correctly with the light bulb. Steve (in ME)
Edited by ac55tractor - 01 Aug 2022 at 9:46pm
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BrianC
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Posted: 18 Jul 2022 at 2:34pm |
Going to a smaller bulb should not have caused an issue. My guess is you have a new bulb holder and now the holder is
grounded some how. What you need need is a lamp holder with two wires coming out, the lamp holder body isolated from the grounded box/chassis. You may already have this config, well then it is something else.
With my C I used the resistor and no alternator toggle out switch. I would rather have had an indicator light, but I didn't want to jam another item into that small box. I also went with voltmeter (instead of ammeter). While not period correct, I think it is better electrically speaking.
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WF owner
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Posted: 18 Jul 2022 at 3:44pm |
You mentioned using (I assume an OE) ammeter. I would suggest that you think about changing to a voltmeter. Ammeters worked fine on the 6 volt generator, but now, with an alternator, you have double the voltage and the alternator has a lot more charging potential than a generator.
All the power generated by the alternator or generator runs through the ammeter on the way to the battery. There is nothing fused. Since most of these ammeters were designed to handle a maximum of 60 amps @ 6 volts, the ammeter is grossly overloaded, especially when the battery is low and being charged with an alternator that may have the potential to charge 140 amps @ 12 volts.
If you change to a voltmeter, the charging wire can run directly to the battery. A volt meter, which can be fused, can monitor the charging condition of the battery and charging system much safer than the ammeter.
Think about it this way. You don't ever see an ammeter in a newer vehicle or equipment. There is a reason for that!
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 18 Jul 2022 at 4:46pm |
The reason you dont see an ammeter in a truck or car is because a voltmeter is CHEAPER... Amp meter requires a large cable to carry the current into the cab and back out to the battery...
You can put a 140 amp alternator or a 200 amp alternator on a tractor and it will do no different than an older 35 or 60 amp alternator... Alternator only puts out what the battery NEEDS... Normally that will be 3-4 amps... If the battery is DEAD, then you might get 30- 40 amps for a few minutes, then taper off.
You make some good points about the voltmeter, but it was installed due to COST.
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plummerscarin
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Posted: 18 Jul 2022 at 5:02pm |
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Once upon a time my 68 Cyclone had an ammeter. Aftermarket gauge set as was popular in the day. For whatever reason the wires to the gauge and out got extremely hot and smoked the interior. No other damage but learned a thing or two that day. Mostly that I don't like ammeters much
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Jim.ME
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Posted: 18 Jul 2022 at 5:03pm |
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Agreed a voltmeter can be installed cheaper. In considering to use a voltmeter, I also look at the fact that one of the first things recommended when checking/testing a charging system is to check the voltage, not amperage. 3-4 amps is hard to see (if it can be seen) on many charging system ammeters. The difference in voltage is much easier to see when running. Also, a low battery can be seen, when the key is turned on before cranking. Either works.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 18 Jul 2022 at 5:25pm |
YEP.. safety is a big thing... On a truck or car with air cond, heat, electric heated seats, radio amp , dozens of light... You can imagine that the alternator might be putting out 60 amps or more... That would put #6 or #4 wire to the ampmeter and battery.. NOT a good plan to have that under the dash...... On a tractor , the amp meter is about a foot from the battery and you seldom see 10 amps on the wire, so a #10 is plenty big..
Like mentioned, not much uses amp meters anymore due to the size of wire / cost / safety in installing it all........... on an old tractor, not a big deal ......... it is nice to see the battery voltage PRIOR to starting and AFTER, if you have a voltmeter..
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Jimadelmacy
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Posted: 20 Jul 2022 at 7:59am |
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I spoke to my father about the wiring on my tractor early Monday morning. He used to work with Steve Cox (ac55tractor) at the machine shop in Auburn. He emailed Steve for me, and he called me back. I told him that I joined the Unofficial Allis Chalmers forum to get some help, and I felt that I was confusing everyone with my statements, and my drawings. Steve said that he was already a member, and he would help me out. I asked him to step in for me. We spoke about the replies from the forum and he posted my replies for me. With the help from the forum, he was able to clear things up for me. I have a 12 volt gauge coming today. I wanted to thank Steve, (ac55tractor) for stepping in for me, and to all of the members here for their help. Steve said that he uses a 12 volt gauge on his tractor. It took some convincing, but he got through to me. My father said that he will help me wire it up.
Again, thanks everyone. Jim Adelmacy
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ac55tractor
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Posted: 20 Jul 2022 at 8:07am |
Jim, You know, what goes around comes around. I was glad to help. Let everyone know how you make out with the voltmeter.
Steve (inME)
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