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Tractor Lights - Electrical
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John-Paul View Drop Down
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Joined: 24 May 2019
Location: Kettle Falls
Points: 65 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John-Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Tractor Lights - Electrical
    Posted: 02 Dec 2019 at 2:40pm
I have a 1964 D15. There are currently 2 headlights and one light facing backwards. They are all connected via 1 wire. I bought some new LED lights (12v, 18W by Ironton) to replace the current ones. The new LED lights have 2 wires coming out of them. The specs said that they are for DC use, like for a tractor. Is it possible to use these new ones or did I purchase the wrong type of light? If I can use them, do you have any tips for making it happen? Thank you!
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Sugarmaker View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Jul 2013
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Points: 8426 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2019 at 2:45pm
john,
one hot , one ground?
regards,
 chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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John-Paul View Drop Down
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Joined: 24 May 2019
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Points: 65 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John-Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2019 at 3:00pm
No specs came with the lights. However, there is 1 black wire and 1 red wire. I am not sure about the coloring regarding DC wiring. Thanks!
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Bear Taylor View Drop Down
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Joined: 13 Dec 2017
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Points: 80 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bear Taylor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2019 at 3:16pm
The hot wire (positive) will be the red one and the black wire will be the ground (negative). The black wire can be attached to the metal frame/chassis of the tractor.
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Bear Taylor View Drop Down
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Joined: 13 Dec 2017
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Points: 80 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bear Taylor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2019 at 3:26pm
We had an old JD-model D that was a positive ground instead of a negative ground.   It made us reverse our way of thinking when dealing with wiring issues.
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John-Paul View Drop Down
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Points: 65 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John-Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2019 at 3:32pm
Ok, so replace the current 1 wire with the new red, and the new black gets grounded - correct? Thanks!
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Points: 24334 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2019 at 3:36pm
YIKES ! Confirm that the tractor IS negative ground BEFORE wiring up the LEDs !! The package or website should( must ?) have the colour code information as to which wire is +ve and -ve.

If it says 'nonpolar' or ' no polarity' or 'universal' then it doesn't matter how you hook them up. The 'universal' LEDs run power through a 10 cent bridge rectifer making them idiot proof to install............

Jay
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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John-Paul View Drop Down
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Points: 65 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John-Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2019 at 5:36pm
Will do. Thanks!
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MACK View Drop Down
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If they are wired up wrong, they will not light. Just reverse wires.           MACK.
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John-Paul View Drop Down
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Points: 65 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John-Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2019 at 10:39pm
Thank you!
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Points: 24334 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2019 at 7:07am
You need to be careful about hooking up backwards !
Unless the unit has 'reverse polarity protection' ,anything other than a very,very quick  connection can blow the LEDs. Tis the 'nature of the beast'..super bright for a microsecond or two, then poof.. forever darkness.
Good LED units will  have an internal diode ,so no harm. Great LED units will use a bridge rectifer and be labelled 'universal hookup' or 'idiotproof'.
Either only adds maybe 10 cents to the product.
Red 'should' be +ve , Black 'should' be -ve but I wouldn't bet my D-14 on it !

Jay
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Flyer View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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Points: 457 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2019 at 9:05am
If hooking up the LED backwards hurts it, something was wrong with it to begin with.  Reversing the polarity won't hurt the LED unless the applied voltage is greater than the breakdown voltage for the LED.  The breakdown voltage for these should be greater than 50V for a diode in a 12V application.  Thing to remember is that a bridge rectifier is just a collection of 4 diodes with 2 of them reverse biased at any given time.
An optimist sees the glass as half full. The pessimist sees the glass as half empty. The engineer sees a glass with double the required capacity.
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jaybmiller View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Points: 24334 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2019 at 9:30am
Typical white LED reverse voltage is 5 volts, so applying 12 volts 'backwards will destroy the LED It's one of those 'physics' laws. If done very quickly though, not enough current flows and it might not be destroyed.
The problem with '12 volt LED lights' is I (we) can't see what's inside the fancy housing. Cheap(low cost) units could just be a simple one resistor- one LED. Better ones will have 3 LEDS in series with one resistor. Even better ones ,some kind of 'reverse polarity protection'. Best ones will have a voltage to constant current 'module', as LEDs are a current driven device, not voltage. Those units probably have protection builtin.
The problem is NOT being able to see 'what's under the hood' and ZERO standards for wire colour codes. The joy of those with bridge rectifires is that it doesn't matter about polarity. They work on +ve grounded vehicles, -ve grounded vehicles and will even operate from AC.

Jay
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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John-Paul View Drop Down
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Points: 65 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John-Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2019 at 10:07am
I finally made it out to check the grounding on the tractor. It has a negative ground. The black wire attached to the - (minus sign) terminal on the battery is going to the engine block. I appreciate the warning about a positive ground. I didn't even know such a thing existed. I guess I am ready to install the new lights.
I appreciate everyone's help!!
 
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Flyer View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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Points: 457 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2019 at 1:24pm
Originally posted by jaybmiller jaybmiller wrote:

Typical white LED reverse voltage is 5 volts, so applying 12 volts 'backwards will destroy the LED It's one of those 'physics' laws. If done very quickly though, not enough current flows and it might not be destroyed.
The problem with '12 volt LED lights' is I (we) can't see what's inside the fancy housing. Cheap(low cost) units could just be a simple one resistor- one LED. Better ones will have 3 LEDS in series with one resistor. Even better ones ,some kind of 'reverse polarity protection'. Best ones will have a voltage to constant current 'module', as LEDs are a current driven device, not voltage. Those units probably have protection builtin.
The problem is NOT being able to see 'what's under the hood' and ZERO standards for wire colour codes. The joy of those with bridge rectifires is that it doesn't matter about polarity. They work on +ve grounded vehicles, -ve grounded vehicles and will even operate from AC.

Jay


There's a lesson in there about getting what you pay for.  A buddy of mine got some cheap LED 1157-type replacements he wanted to use for the tail lights on his car.  Any time you turned on a turn signal, the opposite park light would flash along with the intended turn signal.  I cut one open to discover that they used a dropping resistor inside to dim the bulb for tail light duty.  When you lit the bulb through the other contact for the turn signal, the opposing tail light was back-fed through the resistor. 
An optimist sees the glass as half full. The pessimist sees the glass as half empty. The engineer sees a glass with double the required capacity.
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jaybmiller View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Points: 24334 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2019 at 2:11pm
neat...a 1 cent diode in series for the tailight LED would have cured that...
...reminds me that NOW 'they' sell CAN rated LED bulbs. They contain power robbing 'bleeder' resistors to make the LED bulb look like a regular incandescent so the 'computer' won't think the bulb's burned out .....
Jay
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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