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TPMS

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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2024 at 8:10am
your right.. Gramps didnt pay $100 K for a car.... Of course he could not afford that , making $ .31 per hour !!   Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2024 at 10:06am
Originally posted by klinemar klinemar wrote:

This tire pressure indicator warning was the result of people not being responsible checking tire pressure and rolling their vehicle and surviving or family members suing if they didn't.


This is blatant falsehood- it had absolutely NOTHING to do with vehicles rolling or litigation.

TPMS was the result of someone designing a feature that, at the time, was very expensive to develop and install...  and putting it into production realm of large enough scale that the price was driven down, while at the same time, large-scale integration of systems in vehicles permitted the technology to be included in the integration, and sold to the public as a 'necessary safety feature'.

The first electronic TPMS systems appeared in military trucks that used Central Tire Inflation.  The sensors weren't in the wheels, they were in the air line branches, and the system had two functions:  First, was to be able to air the tires DOWN when transitioning from highway to off-road tactical operation, and back up, WHILE IN MOTION (meaning, no soldier on the ground, and no waiting.

The first vehicle I ever worked on with CTIS was a GMC DUKW... a DUCK...  yeah, WW2... and in that context, the ability to monitor tire pressure, was through a guage and regulator on the upper right of the dashboard.

This isn't exactly the same thing as modern TPMS, it was actually 'better'... it just plain old kept-em-all-at-the-same-pressure.  If you got a leak, it'd keep you rolling... It'd usually handle a piece of small shrapnel, even a 30 cal bullet... and get you out of the direct-fire path.

Electronic individual sensors didn't show up until the '80's, and the technology was 'needy'... the transmitters were power hungry and brainless, and the receiver system was clunky and troublesome.  It was tested on military vehicles, heavy equipment, and mining vehicles before the 'modern' systems came around.

The 'modern' systems have the same faults as the early electronic-  the transmitters suck.  They're in a harsh environment, getting shaken to heck, they're using a weak transmission method, a marginally-effective protocol... but to add to the problem, there's now a zillion other TPMS sensors in the parking lots around your car, they're all jabbering away on the same frequency range, but trying to remain 'unique'... it's like a thousand crying babies in church.

The problem with garbage like this, is that it BREEDS COMPLACANCY.

If you have a working system, people begin to TRUST it. 
THEN it fails.

The big problem with stem-mounted sensors, is that they LEAK.  They CAUSE the very problem you're trying to solve.

USED TO BE that when you got new tires, you removed the old stems, scrubbed the holes clean, and install new valve stems.  With TPMS, this adds a significant cost to the tire replacement.  On my wife's car, it was $180/tire for tires, and $560 for replacing the valve stems, because they're all TPMS... new sensors, plus programming...

The best solution is to take the dash apart, clip the leads to the indicator light, then dismount the tires, cut out the stupid sensors, and fit conventional valve stems...

And install a hand-held gauge in the cupholder.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2024 at 10:12am
Originally posted by jaybmiller jaybmiller wrote:

Hay Steve, bet your grandfather didn't have to fork out $100K to replace his car at 60,000 miles !!!
I remember driving pop's 77 caddy to North Bay(6hrs...), towing a '57 Willys Sedan Delivery  when it went 100,000 mile ! Next day came back with '57 Willys Pickup(overloaded with 'spares' ) using same homemade towbar. Kinda miss them all ,sniff,sniff.
you can’t stop doing the math at the price of the car. Gotta look at income (yes, not yours, I know you don’t have one since 1944 blah blah blah), life of the product , etc. Just imagine what tires cost, versus income versus miles they last, the abuse they take. Tires are cheap!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2024 at 10:41am
TPMS, like nearly every other 'safety' feature or 'innovation' is to 'dumb down' the vehicle owner, remove responsibility from them as 'technology' will do it for you.It also makes a huge amount of cash for  those who make/sell/install/repair the gadgets.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2024 at 11:31am
Originally posted by jaybmiller jaybmiller wrote:

TPMS, like nearly every other 'safety' feature or 'innovation' is to 'dumb down' the vehicle owner, remove responsibility from them as 'technology' will do it for you.It also makes a huge amount of cash for  those who make/sell/install/repair the gadgets.


Ok. Now, so what?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2024 at 11:43am
Originally posted by jaybmiller jaybmiller wrote:

TPMS, like nearly every other 'safety' feature or 'innovation' is to 'dumb down' the vehicle owner, remove responsibility from them as 'technology' will do it for you.It also makes a huge amount of cash for  those who make/sell/install/repair the gadgets.


Interesting question of chronology. Is the purpose TO dumb it down? Like the Illuminati in the corporate board rooms are all part of the huge secret conspiracy to drive we the people toward more dumbness. Or, is it the RESULT of the people being dumber(surely by conspiracy), “they” figured, boy, we better monitor the tire pressure of these idiots’ cars or they’re going to die off faster than planned? Or, hear me out, was the root of the technology there since Dave Kamp’s duck, and the project team thought, ya know? That’d be pretty cool to put a monitoring system on cars? I bet people would like that and buy it. And might even save some tires and do some good along the way. Nah….it’s something evil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2024 at 12:29pm
COME ON TBONE... You know they put ELECTIC windows and LOCKS in the cars because the new generation is to STUPID to PULL OP ON THE KNOB !!!  LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2024 at 12:32pm
the REASON they put all the electronic gadgets on cars ( and appliances and everything else) is due to the old saying "keeping up with the Jones"....... EVERYONE wants to say "LOOK WHAT I GOT"....... "I GOT SOMETHING YOU DONT"....... and eventually it becomes a real Convenience that you " cant do without"... Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2024 at 1:15pm
Originally posted by steve(ill) steve(ill) wrote:

the REASON they put all the electronic gadgets on cars ( and appliances and everything else) is due to the old saying "keeping up with the Jones"....... EVERYONE wants to say "LOOK WHAT I GOT"....... "I GOT SOMETHING YOU DONT"....... and eventually it becomes a real Convenience that you " cant do without"... Wink
Yep!
Except not QUITE everyone….

Edited by Tbone95 - 28 Dec 2024 at 1:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2024 at 5:42pm
The 1st gen Tesla's had a 'minor' flaw in tech......
When the battery went too low,you couldn't OPEN the car, to get the charge cable out to recharge the battery........

A LOT of the 'gadgets' get help from the 'bean counters'. Today most (all ? ) vehicles are 'push starts', NO real,unique door + ignition keys. Since all models have same pushbutton, they're super cheap to buy( 10c each ), FAST to install as one size fits all...no assembly line problems, shipping 1000 in a boat ? No key needed, NO problem,any driver can drive any car on/off the boat.

Having a 'WORLD class car just means  bits and pieces from here, there, everywhere can fit and connect via the electronic highways...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2024 at 7:01pm
The current modern auto driver can barely adjust a mirror, cannot operate a clutch and stick, no concept of NOT Driving without Phone in one hand a Large Diet drink in the other, all too busy wheeling and dealing to even operate a key switch to start one. Insensitive to any thing or any one else around them. TPMS can go full alarm they will still get in and drive off.

Numb as the mental midget rocks they have grown to be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2024 at 7:10pm
Originally posted by jaybmiller jaybmiller wrote:

The 1st gen Tesla's had a 'minor' flaw in tech......
When the battery went too low,you couldn't OPEN the car, to get the charge cable out to recharge the battery........

A LOT of the 'gadgets' get help from the 'bean counters'. Today most (all ? ) vehicles are 'push starts', NO real,unique door + ignition keys. Since all models have same pushbutton, they're super cheap to buy( 10c each ), FAST to install as one size fits all...no assembly line problems, shipping 1000 in a boat ? No key needed, NO problem,any driver can drive any car on/off the boat.

Having a 'WORLD class car just means  bits and pieces from here, there, everywhere can fit and connect via the electronic highways...
that’s not the way the few push button start cars we have had are. You have a fob, if the car doesn’t sense the fob, it won’t start. If the battery in the fob is weak, there’s a slot to stick it in or the car won’t run. If you take the fob away from the car, you get a warning and it’ll soon shut off. And they must be unique because if you grab a fob of the other car it won’t start.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2024 at 8:39pm
The problem with Tesla car or truck is they ALSO have a 12v auto battery in the Frunk on the cars, do not know where on the truck, those get ignored and die door latches, frunk or trunk latches do not work, a BS way of building.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KJCHRIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2024 at 9:06pm
My '10 F150 has the low tire light on as of Friday night, underneath it flashes "sensor issue". all 5 tires are 33 - 35 psi according to my digital tester. 
 I just push the reset button and message quits flashing but the tire light stays on solid. This will be second sensor since last summer, my local tire shop can read which wheel it's in & what sensor freq. is needed. So I'll be at their door 7:30am Monday. 
 Dang that Amber light bothers me driving in dark.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2024 at 9:12pm
your sensors ( batteries) are 15 years old... Might think about ALL new sensors... especially if getting a new set of tires.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ed (Ont) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2024 at 10:42pm
This is more entertaining than a Cheech and Chong movie!! Smile   Seriously tho lots of good info in some of the replies. Thx.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2024 at 5:28am
All too funny as to FOB devices, wife’s exploder uses that, she got in one day, car would not start, had her fob/key.

Took battery out and tested it, still hot at spec volts. Took out key Inside FOB, placed it where required still no start but all alarm lights coming on. Checked car battery 8v.

Enough power to engage the dash electronics, not enough to do anything else. Changed battery in car, all good again.

All the major manufacturers can unlock your car by Satellite, they can also shut them off, a Hacker hits GM FORD and STELLANTIS all at once could shut off every car built since 2006 or maybe 2007, earlier versions not so much. Per a engineer at Freightliner, every machine out there with late model electronics can be ‘watched’ in real time by the manufacturer, just cannot display to the world that data as is a privacy violation. The class 6,7,8 trucks out there today are just like the cars, can be switched off at any time by the production company.

Edited by DMiller - 29 Dec 2024 at 5:35am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2024 at 6:39am
As I see it, the problem with TPMS is similar to other warning lights (oil pressure, overheating, voltage, etc.) is that people think they replace manual checking. Oil, coolant, transmission fluid, power steering fluid, brake fluid, windshield washer fluid and air pressure still need to be checked. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2024 at 6:53am
Know numerous people, HAVE NOT EVER opened the hoods on their cars/trucks.  Some in over five years, 'Get Regular Services' so blame issues on the garages that did last service.  Sheesh!

And yes, None of the automated warning devices is intended to eliminate personal checks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2024 at 7:40am
Originally posted by DMiller DMiller wrote:

All too funny as to FOB devices, wife’s exploder uses that, she got in one day, car would not start, had her fob/key.

Took battery out and tested it, still hot at spec volts. Took out key Inside FOB, placed it where required still no start but all alarm lights coming on. Checked car battery 8v.

Enough power to engage the dash electronics, not enough to do anything else. Changed battery in car, all good again.

All the major manufacturers can unlock your car by Satellite, they can also shut them off, a Hacker hits GM FORD and STELLANTIS all at once could shut off every car built since 2006 or maybe 2007, earlier versions not so much. Per an engineer at Freightliner, every machine out there with late model electronics can be ‘watched’ in real time by the manufacturer, just cannot display to the world that data as is a privacy violation. The class 6,7,8 trucks out there today are just like the cars, can be switched off at any time by the production company.

I had a car that would power up everything but wouldn’t start exactly as you described. It had a key switch though, not a push button and fob. Put a new battery in and fixed the problem. A voltage level had to be seen by the computer or it wouldn’t allow a start. Frustrating to find and pretty dumb yes, but nothing to do with the fob system.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2024 at 9:45am
Originally posted by Tbone95 Tbone95 wrote:

Originally posted by DMiller DMiller wrote:

All too funny as to FOB devices, wife’s exploder uses that, she got in one day, car would not start, had her fob/key.

Took battery out and tested it, still hot at spec volts. Took out key Inside FOB, placed it where required still no start but all alarm lights coming on. Checked car battery 8v.

Enough power to engage the dash electronics, not enough to do anything else. Changed battery in car, all good again.

All the major manufacturers can unlock your car by Satellite, they can also shut them off, a Hacker hits GM FORD and STELLANTIS all at once could shut off every car built since 2006 or maybe 2007, earlier versions not so much. Per an engineer at Freightliner, every machine out there with late model electronics can be ‘watched’ in real time by the manufacturer, just cannot display to the world that data as is a privacy violation. The class 6,7,8 trucks out there today are just like the cars, can be switched off at any time by the production company.

I had a car that would power up everything but wouldn’t start exactly as you described. It had a key switch though, not a push button and fob. Put a new battery in and fixed the problem. A voltage level had to be seen by the computer or it wouldn’t allow a start. Frustrating to find and pretty dumb yes, but nothing to do with the fob system.

I had one do the same thing (key start). When you tested the battery with a meter, it tested over 13 volts, but load testing it showed it was bad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KJCHRIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2024 at 10:09am
Steve Ill, talked to tire shop mgr @ breakfast, they'll be ready for me monday morning.   Yes, it will get 4 new matched sensors when it gets new tires, but about 20 - 25K miles to go. These will get thru winter w no trouble but will be short on tread before next winter.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2024 at 10:39am
Originally posted by WF owner WF owner wrote:

Originally posted by Tbone95 Tbone95 wrote:

Originally posted by DMiller DMiller wrote:

All too funny as to FOB devices, wife’s exploder uses that, she got in one day, car would not start, had her fob/key.

Took battery out and tested it, still hot at spec volts. Took out key Inside FOB, placed it where required still no start but all alarm lights coming on. Checked car battery 8v.

Enough power to engage the dash electronics, not enough to do anything else. Changed battery in car, all good again.

All the major manufacturers can unlock your car by Satellite, they can also shut them off, a Hacker hits GM FORD and STELLANTIS all at once could shut off every car built since 2006 or maybe 2007, earlier versions not so much. Per an engineer at Freightliner, every machine out there with late model electronics can be ‘watched’ in real time by the manufacturer, just cannot display to the world that data as is a privacy violation. The class 6,7,8 trucks out there today are just like the cars, can be switched off at any time by the production company.

I had a car that would power up everything but wouldn’t start exactly as you described. It had a key switch though, not a push button and fob. Put a new battery in and fixed the problem. A voltage level had to be seen by the computer or it wouldn’t allow a start. Frustrating to find and pretty dumb yes, but nothing to do with the fob system.


I had one do the same thing (key start). When you tested the battery with a meter, it tested over 13 volts, but load testing it showed it was bad.


I’ll admit, it had me stumped. It started doing it one winter, sometimes would go sometimes not. A jump or charger and it would go, battery date was good, when running it showed a good charge. No idiot lights or codes. Then it was fine. (Spring came, I didn’t put two and two together). Next winter it did it again. Put a new battery in and never had the issue again. Kinda weird that battery was fine for 7 more months after the first issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2024 at 11:57am
Cold will show out a weak cell.

What I cannot stomach is the Cops stating they CANNOT Stop NEWER Car Thieves, ONE CALL to GM, Hyundai, Kia, ANY of the Newer Manufacturers with a VIN(From License Number) and auto can be DISABLED Completely.  Absolutely Useless to Thieves yet Unused as "Could present a Real Time Harm to walkways using public" which is a Stretch far out Left Side.


Edited by DMiller - 29 Dec 2024 at 12:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2024 at 1:05pm
or YOU can do it yourself for less than $50,takes 1/2 hr.
Yes they can get in, start ..but only go about 1-2 city blocks, after that NOTHING they try WILL get them further.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ekjdm14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2024 at 3:43pm
Originally posted by jaybmiller jaybmiller wrote:

or YOU can do it yourself for less than $50,takes 1/2 hr.
Yes they can get in, start ..but only go about 1-2 city blocks, after that NOTHING they try WILL get them further.

I still think a key switch & razor blades under the dash is the way to go Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobPaulusCentrOH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2024 at 6:03pm
Well you fellas just summarized why I still drive my 1987 Ford F250 4 wheel drive
truck.  Got a little bit of rust here and there.  Still runs pretty good with 300 cu. in. six.
Wife has been pushing for 10 years to go buy new truck.  Serves my needs.
No glitz and sh-ts!
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