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torque limiter eliminator |
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grinder220 ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Jan 2012 Location: Clinton Iowa Points: 2367 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 15 May 2017 at 10:42am |
Just curious as I've had to replace a few torque limiters over the last couple years and just replaced the one on my 7050 and its still slipping under load if a solid hub could be used in place of it or is it necessary to absorb the shock? I'm guessing my belleville washer is weak,everything else checked out to spec,had flywheel resurfaced,did the mash on brakes thing periodically throughout the 8 mile drive from the shop to the field. I wouldn't mind having a permanent fix to this if possible
Edited by grinder220 - 15 May 2017 at 10:43am |
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MACK ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664 |
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If you lock it up, it will take the splines out of PD clutch. Always resurface flywheel, new disc, and pressure plate. If you don't do all three, you waste your time and money.
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Ron(AB) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 27 Dec 2009 Location: Alberta Points: 959 |
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Mack , Do you mean to include all 4 things? The spring too? |
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Ron(AB) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 27 Dec 2009 Location: Alberta Points: 959 |
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Grinder,
Are you sure the PD is not slipping? If you have done it a couple of times already… Maybe its time for some new o-rings and seals? I've just replaced the clutch disk on a PD trans before and had good results. Do you have any oil leaks around the trans? |
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wayneIA ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 17 Oct 2009 Location: Waverly, IA Points: 268 |
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The local implement dealer had told me that on the 7060 especially, and the 7050 at times you are running enough power that the limiter can slip. Their standard method is to put a lock washer under each of the Bellevue washer retainers (1/2" lock washer between the flywheel and the "T" shaped washer clamp the bolt goes through) and add a second Bellevue washer to add to the spring tension. The lock washer compensates for the added thickness of the second Bellevue. I've done this on both my 7050 and 7060 with no issues, but like stated by others above to make sure the clamping plate and flywheel are flat. If your plate is the original, make sure you get 6 new style Bellevue clamps with the new style plate since the later plates are thicker to prevent warping. I also had to put a seal kit in the power director on the 7050 due to internal leakage and the shaft o-ring seeping and allowing oil to come out of the bell housing (possibly getting the limiter disc wet but no positive evidence of that when disassembled). The 7050 would slip in high range on the power director but not low range before resealing the power director, so the oil probably never got on the flywheel to a sufficient amount to cause issues. If you have a 6 button limiter disk, changing it to a 4 button should help in avoiding slippage. I know it sounds backwards due to less surface area, but that is how it works with less surface area, it will drive more positively.
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grinder220 ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Jan 2012 Location: Clinton Iowa Points: 2367 |
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Its definitely the torque limiter slipping, when it starts slipping the transmission light comes on and the hydraulics start acting up. Pull a remote lever and tractor really slows down when it slips. This ones had the updated plate and spacers put in it already and the 4 pad is what I went with. Will give the double washers a try. Probably pull the PD and give it a look over while its split again.
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Jordan(OH) ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Celina, OH Points: 1551 |
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Gee, where is tcm tech to give his wonderful torque limiter advice?
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AC 7060 ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 06 Jul 2010 Points: 144 |
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My pulling tractor had the double Bellevue washer setup when I was running 4th high low powerdirector. When I went to 5th it would not hold any more. Now it's bolted solid.
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MACK ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664 |
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The splines I spoke of are the ones in the cast PD housing. MACK
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CrestonM ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8447 |
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Hahaha!!! Yeah! Lol! I remember that vividly....just cut a hole underneath and shim it up with washers....
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11964 |
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My thoughts yesterday too!
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WD45Diesel57 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 20 Jul 2010 Location: Varna, Ont. Can Points: 646 |
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yes I remember that conversation/argument quite clearly
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1-B's, 2-C, 2-CA's,2-WF, 1-WC,1-G, 3-WD's, 2-WD45, 1-RC, 1-D17 Diesel, 1-D14, 2-D15,1-D17 row crop,1-D19 gas and All Crop 40,60,66,72,90 and 100
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injpumpEd ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Walnut IL Points: 5061 |
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Just bought an open station 7040 to do some local pulling with for next year. Been out testing it this fall. Torque limiter did slip. I'm looking at ways to better that setup. The farm pulls in this area are being limited to 12mph, so that is good for lower powered tractors. I ran it yesterday in 3rd hi range. Speed is just about perfect in hi pd. Sadly it basically stopped moving at just over 200ft lol! I had 3 days to swap to a hot pump, injectors, and an S200 turbo. She runs really good for a fencerow tractor lol! I'll freshen the engine this winter, and possibly the PD too. I want to be able to shift it. Tired of watching red ones dominate with their TA lol! Interested in how you bolted it solid. I certainly don't want to do anything to wipe out the pd though. Thanks for any advice.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Shawn PA ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Location: Hickory PA Points: 164 |
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How do the splines hold up for pulling? I want to get a pump done for my 7030 but don't want the power director tore up.
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KY ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 08 Dec 2009 Location: Kentucky Points: 369 |
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Why did AC use the torque limiter while other tractor manufacturers did not?
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tbran ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Paris Tn Points: 3471 |
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most DID..... either that or a huge spring loader $$$ dampner. We have NEVER been into a tranny that had hard damage that had a proper torque limiter. We have had issues with pd and ps units that had the dampner locked down. We are not talking pulling here. I personally have 3 units with std torque limiters - put in right when I got them, and have had no issues even with higher than oem hp. They were in for a reason - torque limiters are cheaper than tranny parts.
A 4 pad TL with a set up of double springs WITH the same diameter spacer would probably be ok as well - as long as the this 'clutch' can slip when the engine and flywheel at max hp is called upon to move a 20,000 load - for just a little to cushion the shock. |
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When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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Lonn ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29792 |
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I know 5X88 series IH had them and Case power shift tractors had them. Later New Holland had them too. I think about anything with a wet powershift clutch would use them because the wet clutches grab so much harder. Not sure if something like a 4020 PS used them but I would guess they did.
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Wink I am a Russian Bot |
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MACK ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664 |
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Ed, two bolts drilled through pressure plate, disk, and tapped into flywheel will lock it up.lol MACK
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injpumpEd ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Walnut IL Points: 5061 |
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I've just noticed that some power shift tractors use an actual pressure plate with 12 springs, just no levers to release. What was the reason for this style versus the belleville spring?
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21360 |
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That was only in the early 7040-60 models. Engineers felt they may need to release the driveline on cold winter mornings for easier starting. Turns out that it wasn't needed after all, but the design stayed for a while and then they made it like the Power Director tractors. Early 7020 models had to be switched to a heavier flywheel to aid in not stalling the engine when backing up in High reverse.
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pirlbeck ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 01 Dec 2009 Location: West Central IA Points: 227 |
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IH 5X88 did not have a torque limiter, they just had a drive plate bolted to the flywheel, with a spring damper center. We just had the speed transmission out of a 5288 for hi-low clutch packs and that tractor need a new drive plate as the spring center was about ready to fail. Case did use a torque limiter.
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