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DennyS 
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Joined: 08 Feb 2012
Location: Savona,NY
Points: 26
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 Topic: D17 Ignition Problem
Posted: 17 Mar 2012 at 2:49pm |
Decided today to take the tractor for a spin. No seat (away supposedly getting new bushings) Anyhow started right up as usual, Oil pressure good, battery charging, running great, half way up my driveway, just shuts off, No spit,no sputter, just off. Turn key to start and it fires right up,let key back to run, poof it shuts off. Hold key to start, runs, let go , poof. Checked wires, seem ok. So are we talking new ignition switch ? Amp gauge with switch on used to show a discharge, now it doesn't move with switch on.
This Allis is really trying my patience, Every day I find something else that's been jury rigged. It obviously had nothing repaired correctly, just welded fast. I guess that's what I get for not being more observant before the paint job and new tires blinded me.
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CAL(KS)
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Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: Chapman, KS
Points: 3804
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Posted: 17 Mar 2012 at 2:54pm |
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if it will run in start position and not in run that sounds like switch to me. anything else it wouldnt run on either
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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CTuckerNWIL
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: NW Illinois
Points: 22825
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Posted: 17 Mar 2012 at 3:21pm |
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My switch has gone bad on my 45. If I turn it all the way on, it doesn't supply juice to the coil. If I back it off just a tad, it works fine. I know it's gonna quit all together one of these days. I think you need to replace the switch.
Original switches had only on and off positions. Somebody must have changed your 45 to a solenoid start?
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DonBC
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Courtenay, BC,
Points: 944
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Posted: 17 Mar 2012 at 4:14pm |
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I don't know if they had a ballast resister or not but that is what happens if the ballast resister burns out. The ballast resister is bypassed when the key is in the start position to give more voltage to the coil while the starter is dragging down the voltage from the battery. The coil is fed through the ballast resister once the key is released to reduce the voltage on the points to make the points last longer.
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Jack of all trades, master of none
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Skyhighballoon(MO)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Pilot Grove, MO
Points: 3115
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Posted: 17 Mar 2012 at 4:42pm |
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D17's were originally built with a ballast resistor. Mike
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1981 Gleaner F2 Corn Plus w 13' flex
1968 Gleaner EIII w 10' & 330
1969 180 gas
1965 D17 S-IV gas
1963 D17 S-III gas
1956 WD45 gas NF PS
1956 All-Crop 66 Big Bin
303 wire baler, 716H, 712H mowers
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DennyS
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Joined: 08 Feb 2012
Location: Savona,NY
Points: 26
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Posted: 17 Mar 2012 at 6:03pm |
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Ballast resister is the problem. Did some tests and then jumped the resister and it runs fine. Only ran it for a few seconds, but that's the problem. With key on, power at one end but not the other. Solenoid sends power in start position.
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DaveKamp
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Location: LeClaire, Ia
Points: 6066
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Posted: 17 Mar 2012 at 10:32pm |
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Wow... driving it around with no seat? You're alot tougher than me... ;-}
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DennyS
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Joined: 08 Feb 2012
Location: Savona,NY
Points: 26
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Posted: 18 Mar 2012 at 10:07am |
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I'm not that tough, I put a chair cushion on it. I wasn;t sure of the wiring with the resistor, Every diagram I'm finding has no resistor. One wire feeds the resistor from switch, power when switch is on. Other end has two wires. One goes to coil, the other comes from the solenoid and I'm assuming also feeds coil when switch to start position.With switch on power at one end of resistor, nothing at other end.
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Gerald J.
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton Co, IA
Points: 5636
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Posted: 18 Mar 2012 at 10:28am |
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On my 4020 it was added wiring to use a ceramic block resistor in place of the original resistance wire for that ballast. Specifically a Scotch-tap. I don't allow Scotch-taps for anything now. I finished haying that week with it hot wired.
You need a test light or a voltmeter to trace the ignition circuit from the battery through the switch to the resistor and to the coil. Some where the circuit is open and the switch is not free of suspicion. Its high, but it could be ANY wire or wire connection. A test light that draws an amp will be a more reliable test of bad connections than a voltmeter that takes microamps to indicate. A poor connection can make a voltmeter show full voltage but not support a load, why I like a test light. Like a dome lamp with wires added.
Gerald J.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: NW Illinois
Points: 22825
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Posted: 18 Mar 2012 at 11:50am |
 Gerald J. wrote:
You need a test light or a voltmeter to trace the ignition circuit from the battery through the switch to the resistor and to the coil. Some where the circuit is open and the switch is not free of suspicion. Its high, but it could be ANY wire or wire connection. A test light that draws an amp will be a more reliable test of bad connections than a voltmeter that takes microamps to indicate. A poor connection can make a voltmeter show full voltage but not support a load, why I like a test light. Like a dome lamp with wires added.
Gerald J.
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Is this true for both analog and digital testers? I suppose it doesn't take much to move the needle on an analog meter.
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DaveKamp
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Location: LeClaire, Ia
Points: 6066
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Posted: 18 Mar 2012 at 2:18pm |
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The wire coming from ignition switch fires to resistor, then coil .
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Gerald J.
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton Co, IA
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Posted: 18 Mar 2012 at 5:57pm |
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A cheap analog meter takes as much as 1 milliamp full scale. A good one 20 times less. Some digital meters take 50 times less than that. A test light that draws an amp solves those problems quicker by not misleading.
Gerald J.
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Chalmersbob
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: 18 Mar 2012 at 10:21pm |
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The resistor is wired through the iginition switch, through the resistor to the coil. The second wire on the coil side is to bypass the ignition switch and supply 12 volts directly to the coil for a hotter spark for starting. Bob
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DennyS
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Location: Savona,NY
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Posted: 22 Mar 2012 at 9:39pm |
Ok, New Ballast resistor,fired right up,running smooth,charging,Oil pressure good, Got a replacement brake spring and promptly it flew somewhere down into the brakes. Can't see it, Brakes work,No noises, I guess the only way to find it is with a magnet or remove the brakes and look for it. Anyhow warmed it up a bit and started up the long steep driveway. Got to the last steepest spot before breaking over the top, and poof tractor chokes out. Coming backwards down this driveway engine off is not a wonderfully fun thing. Coast down to the flatter part where I can actually get the tractor stopped. Starts right back up. Runs great, here we go again, Almost to top Poof, After backing down 4 times scary, I decided to call a mechanic friend. He says Back up the driveway and see if it goes, Back up all the way without even a little stumble. 3 times. So off comes the carb for a float check and adjustment. Everything good, Carb back together, Up the Hill I go again, Steep part Poof, Back up fine. When it finally dawned on me what was wrong I really felt like a jerk. 5 galloms of gas in the tank fixed it. The angle of the dangle was too much for the little bit of gas in the tank. Ran fine on the flat.
So you may ask, Is there a question, yes there is, I need a new gas gauge, Mine is shot, no float and no magnets to operate gauge. Problem is this, 2 of the screws that hold the gauge to the tank are twisted off. Since I blew myself up some years back with gasolene, I'm thinking drilling into the tank to try to remove these twisted off screws doesn't appeal to me. 40 days in a burn unit is not something I wish to repeat, Any suggestions, Short of tank removal and water fill, My options are limited.
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Prairie City Ia
Points: 10508
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Posted: 22 Mar 2012 at 10:37pm |
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With an empty tank you can use a shop vac to clear the tank of fumes. You need one that the hose can be switched to the outlet or blowing side. Tape the hose over the filler neck and let it push the fumes out then go to work.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Gerald J.
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton Co, IA
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Posted: 23 Mar 2012 at 3:22am |
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You found the same problem that was designed into the early model T Ford with the gas tank under the seat, had to back up long steep hills to get fuel to the carburetor.
I had a gas tank filler neck soldered by a local shop once. They drained the tank then took it out of the truck. Sat it on the floor and ran a hose from their pickup exhaust pipe through the door port of the shop and into the tank. They let the truck idle for an hour then soldered the tank by heating a soldering copper a couple feet away from the tank with a torch. And he smoked a cigarette while soldering.
After on burn, I'm sure you aren't that brave. Find a shop that will work on the tank after you have drained all the gas out.
Or carry a bit a wood lathe a foot longer than the depth of the tank and stick it in the filler opening when you want to know the depth. A quick dip stick. Keep it clean so you don't introduce dirt to the tank. Its reliable but not continuous reading.
Gerald J.
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Bob D. (La)
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Louisiana
Points: 25529
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Posted: 23 Mar 2012 at 4:44am |
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Reported danha
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When you find yourself in a hole,PUT DOWN THE SHOVEL!!!
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