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johnea4 
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Indiana
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 Topic: 160 fuel pump help part 2
Posted: 10 Sep 2020 at 9:14pm |
So thanks for the advice in my last post about the fittings on the lines to and from the lift pump. Got them on leak free. So bled the lines all the way to the injectors and it started; but died in about 45 seconds. Can't restart. Couple of things to note during the bleeding process, even the successful one before it started: i get fuel out of the line into the filter but then not out of the bleed screw on top of the filter (yes, i did reconnect the inlet line.) Second, i can get fuel out of the lower bleed screw on the injector pump but then not the upper one. Third, the manual priming lever on the new lift pump stopped working so i had to crank it to complete the bleeding process. I've rebled everything and there seemed to be air in the lines again; but it won't start again. Any ideas?
Thanks, John
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Boss Man
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Joined: 03 Mar 2018
Location: Greenleaf, WI
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Posted: 11 Sep 2020 at 8:13am |
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If the manual lever quit working are you sure your getting full flow from the pump? Are you sure there's no restriction in the tank? I was getting flow on my forklift from the tank but wasn't getting enough. It would run and die. Rebleed and would go again.
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lowell66dart
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Joined: 10 Jul 2013
Location: Paulina La.
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Posted: 11 Sep 2020 at 8:53am |
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Sounds like you need a pump. They are not very durable. I have also used an inline 12 volt diesel pump with success before. Amazon has them.
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AC 6080 (8030,7060,200,175,D-17HC, 6040,160,6140 all gone) Farmall 1066 & 656 Hi-Clear (for sale), White 2-62 High Clearance, JD 4255 Hi Clear.
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johnea4
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Posted: 11 Sep 2020 at 11:57am |
Hmm. Flow from the tank seems okay. The lift pump is brand new and seems to have a strong flow at the inlet to the filter. Wonder if i've got blockage in the filter housing or the line from there to the injection pump. Or in the injection pump? That might be tough to clear out. What about the bleed off lines that go from the injectors back to the filter, if those are blocked could it cause this issue?
John
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Boss Man
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Posted: 11 Sep 2020 at 12:52pm |
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If your not getting fuel out the bleed screw on top the filter something is wrong or not fully purged. If the return/ bleed off lines are plugged you would create excess pressure and the pump wouldn't work.
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BrianC
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Location: New York
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Posted: 11 Sep 2020 at 3:31pm |
The hand lever on the lift pump stopped working. It could be the type of lift pump that can't pump if the eccentric is at the high point, rotate the engine a turn. Then try. You should get a good flow out the top of the breed screw. I don't recall how much you have to back off the screw to bleed out air.
I had posted the bleeding pages from the manual a few months ago.
It seems to me if it would run for 45 seconds, it should have kept working. But if the basic bleeding procedure doesn't function correctly, that is a sign of trouble at the beginning of the line.
A bazillion of these engines were installed in Massey Fergusons, maybe you can seek out help from that community.
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Jim.ME
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Posted: 11 Sep 2020 at 4:54pm |
That has a CAV/ Roosamaster type filter doesn't it? Did you use a WIX or NAPA filter? If so did you get the gasket in the right place?
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lowell66dart
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Posted: 11 Sep 2020 at 5:16pm |
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I have had a few of these tractors and they are a bear to prime that's why I suggested the 12 volt pump. Hook it to the tank and if you don't get fuel to the injection pump begin troubleshooting each part.
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AC 6080 (8030,7060,200,175,D-17HC, 6040,160,6140 all gone) Farmall 1066 & 656 Hi-Clear (for sale), White 2-62 High Clearance, JD 4255 Hi Clear.
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johnea4
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Posted: 12 Sep 2020 at 7:19am |
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Thanks for the advice. Going to do some more troubleshooting today. I used a NAPA filter and was warned about the gasket, i'm pretty sure i put it in the right place but will check. I knew Massey used these engines a lot, we had a good local massey dealer i was going to talk to but he's recently closed up shop.
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DSeries4
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Posted: 12 Sep 2020 at 9:36am |
 johnea4 wrote:
Thanks for the advice. Going to do some more troubleshooting today. I used a NAPA filter and was warned about the gasket, i'm pretty sure i put it in the right place but will check. I knew Massey used these engines a lot, we had a good local massey dealer i was going to talk to but he's recently closed up shop. |
I had a problem with Napa filters before. There were no holes in the top of the filter to allow fuel through. They tractor would run but barely pull itself. I bought a new filter right from AGCO and it has tons of holes in the top. It has run perfectly since then.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 12 Sep 2020 at 10:06am |
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The problem with the filter with the slot isn't the filter itself, it's people putting the seal in the inside edge of the lip, thus blocking flow. The seal goes in a channel in the header assembly above the filter. When installed correctly, they work fine. The agco filters with all the holes is probably a better deal though.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Jim.ME
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Posted: 12 Sep 2020 at 1:41pm |
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As injpumpEd said; The problem isn't the filters it is people putting the gasket in the wrong place. It's been done may times, and sometimes they drop down during installation and don't get noticed. I've used the WIX/NAPA filters for years without problems. A dab or two of grease holds the gasket in the groove of the head during installation.
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LeonR2013
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Posted: 12 Sep 2020 at 8:24pm |
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Did you remove the old gasket? Sounds simple but it's happened in all makes and models. Leon
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johnea4
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Posted: 12 Sep 2020 at 11:45pm |
So the problem ended up being in the inlet port into the filter housing. There was what appeared to be a small piece of rubber fuel line that someone had tried to make into one of the seals the Perkins fuel lines use (see 160 Fuel Pump Help part 1 thread.) It had gotten cockeyed inside and was blocking the flow. Heck, i may have done it when i was checking flow and troubleshooting my initial no-fuel issue (crud in tank.) It would have been easy for that seal to get caught in the inlet as i pulled out the steel line, and didn't realize it was supposed to be on the line. Anyway, cleaned it out, put an o ring on it and bled it and it runs now. But is leaking from a couple other lines so i need to find those Perkins seals. Thanks for all the advice!
John
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BrianC
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Posted: 14 Sep 2020 at 11:27am |
Happy to hear you found the issue. The comments about the filters and gaskets perked me up. I don't know how many times you order a filter and it looks different from the previous, it includes extra o-rings,gaskets, springs and such for many applications. User is left trying figure out how it was designed to function. Fuel filters,hydraulic filters and oil filters same issues.
So I was studying my 160's fuel filter. The bleed screw (on mine, yous may be different) is actually a banjo bolt fitting that accepts bleed off from the injectors. I wonder why they did that. Why not send all the bleed off back to the fuel tank? What I was thinking was if there is air in the high pressure lines, introducing it into the fuel filter seems like not a good idea. However, following the bleed procedure in the manual has always worked for me. Any comments?
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