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Sugarmaker 
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 Topic: Tire swap, Allis to Jubilee?
Posted: 11 Apr 2020 at 9:12pm |
Folks, I have a extra set of tires. Really good Firestone Field and Road 13.6-28's that are still on rims and centers from my Allis WZ project tractor. I am considering having them unmounted from the Allis rims and mounted on the Ford Jubilee. It has the 12.4-28's on it now and they have a lot of tread but the side walls are very cracked. Those are Titan brand. They had some cracks 6 years ago when I got the tractor which had been restored 7 years prior to that. So they have a lot of age and not much actual work. The 13.6's are going to be 4 inches taller, but should go right on the Ford rims which are in very good shape (new rims and centers when it was restored). Anyone see any big disadvantage in doing this swap? The Firestones:
Just a little dirty:
The Titians on the Jubilee now:
Yes the chains may not fit, May have to add some links and a cross chain? Speed of tractor may be off? May not be able to take it in antique tractor pulls due to over size tires? Might have to move the fenders a little??
Humm, another toy project! Might keep me busy for a couple days! I cant really think of a down side.:) And no rim work!
Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 11 Apr 2020 at 9:19pm
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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desertjoe
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Posted: 11 Apr 2020 at 9:37pm |
Well Chris,,,if you change your mind,,,shall I send you my address,,??
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BuckSkin
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Location: Poor Farm
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Posted: 12 Apr 2020 at 4:56am |
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I can't tell from looking at the pictures, but I will say this; tractor wheel bolt-patterns are pretty much standard; measure the bolt-patterns and you might be lucky enough that the wheels will bolt right on.
If not, another option that is way better than swapping tires around from rim to rim is to make some wheel adapters that will allow the bigger tires to bolt on.
Besides the money and aggravation savings compared to dismounting four and mounting two tires, and the added aggravation if either or both happen to have fluid in them, a set of wheel adapters will allow the smaller tires to remain on the rims, ready to bolt back on whenever the need arises.
Making wheel adapters for a tractor that crawls around at twelve MPH is not so critical as making wheel adapters for a truck that may be going eighty MPH.
The previous owner made a set of simple wheel adapters that were on my 1971 Mitsubishi years ago when I bought it; I got the tractor with a brand-new set of 12.4-24 tractor treads on the adapted wheels, plus a pair of like-new 11.00 x 16 flotation turf tires/wheels that are original to the tractor.
I have never bolted on the turf tires, but they are there, aired up and ready, should the need ever arise.
I was surprised that the 11.00x16 are almost as tall as the 12.4-24.
All of that being said, the wheels just might have the same bolt-pattern and the swap be simple.
Edited by BuckSkin - 12 Apr 2020 at 4:58am
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BuckSkin
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Posted: 12 Apr 2020 at 5:06am |
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As best I can tell from the picture of the Ford, it would be a very simple matter to make a pair of adapters should they be necessary.
Cut a circular piece of 3/4" or so plate.
Scribe and drill sixteen holes; eight holes to bolt on the Ford and eight holes spaced between them for studs to mount the Allis wheels.
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PaulB
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Location: Rocky Ridge Md
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Posted: 12 Apr 2020 at 7:35am |
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The Jubilee bolt pattern is smaller that the Allis. You'll be suprised how much taller the 13.6 tires are over the 12.4 ones. Then you be looking for a power upgrade for the Ford as it will seem to die.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 12 Apr 2020 at 8:48am |
Thanks guys, My thought was not to mount the Allis spin outs on the Ford. That just doesnt seem right!:) I was going to remove all four tires from the rims and put the 13.6's on the Jubilee rims. Might cost me a little bit of jing, but also seems like the "right" thing to do! I forgot to mention that I dont change any of these myself I have enough issues getting them to the tire shop and back. Paul, I dont really plan to pull this tractor. Although I have done that in the past just to donate some dollars to the events! I have enough AC's to haul around for that too. This little Ford has never done well in antique pulls anyway. It stays home and does the chores most of the time. Do you think I would notice any difference in just normal things like brush hogging? I wouldn't think it would make much difference there?
I hate to let this good set of tires go down the road and then realize I could have used them. I would rather let those Titans go to someone who might need to get a tractor back up on its feet. Another part of this would be to clean up the Allis rims, centers, and eccentrics, and have them set aside for another potential project!:) Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 12 Apr 2020 at 8:50am
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Boss Man
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Posted: 12 Apr 2020 at 9:57am |
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As long as you brush hog flat ground you should be fine. More power to turn the wheels leaves less to turn the hog.
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DanWi
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Posted: 12 Apr 2020 at 2:05pm |
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We went one size over stock when I replaced the rear tires on our 8N ford, I liked how that turned out faster ground speed better traction. The tires clear the fender ok but not as much room in between dirt sticking on the tires hits your hand if you are holding the fender. Depends on how you are set up to get just a little more clearance you could mess with wheel spacing bolt the rims to the outside of the dish or I dont know for sure but the loops on the rims may give you more offset one way or another
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HD6GTOM
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Posted: 12 Apr 2020 at 2:33pm |
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Far easier to swap the tires from rim to rim rather than make adapters, unless they are full of fluid. A duck bill tire hammer, 1 pair of pliers, 2 30" bars and some good tire lube. And a good back which I ain't got anymore. Have fun with them.
Edited by HD6GTOM - 12 Apr 2020 at 2:36pm
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PaulB
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Posted: 12 Apr 2020 at 3:17pm |
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You'll probably find that everything you do you'll be doing in a lower gear. It's surprising how fast one size bigger tire is doing field work, especially mowing. Engineers did a lot of figuring for gear ratios to match with tire sizes. I've seen Fords that would pull a plow just fine until they got a new bigger set of tires, then they were almost worthless. #1 they were travelling a half gear faster, #2 with good tread they weren't slipping as much.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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farmboy520
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Posted: 13 Apr 2020 at 8:43am |
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A little taller tire will mean your bush hog will be a little higher off the ground until you lower your 3 point arms.
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On the farm: Agco Allis 9695, 7060, 7010, R66, Farmall H, and Farmall F20 (Great Grandpa's)
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 13 Apr 2020 at 11:26am |
Thanks guys, My plan is to get these changed over and try the larger ones on the Ford in the near future. i will let you know how this works out. Specs say 10-28 for the Jubilee, so these will be 2 sizes larger. I can use the D17 on the brush hog now too, since I have the three point set up on it now. And for plowing I have the WD45 with the three bottom 14's. So I am pretty well covered!:) We have high wind today. Tried to get slab wood but the sawmill was not working. Might go monkey with this tire project if I get to feeling ambitious which doesn't happen much any more! Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 13 Apr 2020 at 11:27am
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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BuckSkin
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Posted: 13 Apr 2020 at 12:02pm |
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The implement dealer in our town sells generic rims for about fifty bucks apiece; we have used hundreds of them and they fit and perform as good as originals.
Were it me, if adapters were out of the question, I would leave the current Ford tires mounted and buy a second pair of rims for the bigger tires.
I have played this game all of my life and have learned the hard way what to expect.
Off of the rims, any prospective buyers of the smaller tires are going to be skeptical; most people will pay more for tires that are mounted and obviously holding air, even if they are on the wrong rims.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 13 Apr 2020 at 6:36pm |
Buckskin, Thanks for your comments. Good thoughts on tires on or off the rims for resale too. The right thing is usually not what I do. But I continue to try to fall forward!:)
The Allis rims loaded:
Centers knocked out, Another project If I feel like cleaning these up and getting the eccentrics freed up too:
The older Titans loaded:
Will see how this goes: Forgot I need to get these changed or I might have to buzz wood with the D17:
Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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HudCo
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Posted: 13 Apr 2020 at 8:22pm |
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i think i would have just keept running those titans until there was a problem they could do feild work for quite awhile
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DanWi
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Posted: 13 Apr 2020 at 9:52pm |
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Looks like if you need a few inches of clearance for the new tires you can bolt the rims to the front side of the dish.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 14 Apr 2020 at 6:09am |
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well, with my luck, I'd have to make some fender spacers, to raise them up 3" and only have 2" steel in the scrapbin.......weld up a 'Z' using to 'L's, drill holes and then find out the spacing's wrong...... failing forward......sigh...
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
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Ted J
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Posted: 14 Apr 2020 at 2:22pm |
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Yeah, I like that idea of buying 2 other rims. I still wrassle with changing tires yet, but I'm getting too old to do that anymore. But then, it keeps me strong and feeling young.
I'll bet Eldon can give some tips on changing them, it's kind of his specialty.
If the eccentrics are really stuck and rusted bad, just throw them in your fire box and fish em out the next day. Oh yeah, make sure you take the eccentric pin blocks out first, or you'll have to fish through the ashes. I've been doing this ever since I learned of it and it works wonderfully EVERY time.
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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 14 Apr 2020 at 3:08pm |
Folks, Hoping these larger tires slip right on there with no issue! As usual my day doesn't turn out like expected or planned. Took the tires to the shop They thought they would have them done today. Grandson Mike called and we went and got a used lawn mower on the trailer. Took his two front tires to the tire shop to get tubes put in. Dropped the lawn tractor at his place. Headed over to get slabs and the loader was down due to brake issues. Back home with not much accomplished and no tires!:) Regards, Chris |
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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BuckSkin
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Posted: 14 Apr 2020 at 3:49pm |
 HudCo wrote:
i think i would have just keept running those titans until there was a problem they could do feild work for quite awhile |
I agree; although all of those cracks don't look very pretty, it would probably be another thirty years before the inner-tubes started showing through.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 14 Apr 2020 at 6:35pm |
Guys, I agree I believe those Titans would have worked for a long time too! Just another project to keep a guy busy. Should make the Ford look better at the auction too! Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 15 Apr 2020 at 2:59pm |
Folks, Finished up this little tire project this morning. Looks like it should work out Ok with the Firestone 13.6-28's on it! Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Boss Man
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Posted: 15 Apr 2020 at 5:06pm |
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Those look good on there
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FloydKS
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Posted: 15 Apr 2020 at 6:50pm |
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agreed... ... don't even look too big
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ac45dave
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Posted: 15 Apr 2020 at 8:49pm |
Chris,Those 13.6's look great on the jubiliee..Good call on the change.. 
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54 wd-45gas ; 56 wd-45d N/F w/fact p/s ; 63 d-17 sIII N/F gas ; 60 D14 N/F ; 67 d-17 sIV N/F gas ; 63D15 sII W/F; 39rc#667 ; 2021 massey 4710 fwa ; gravely 2 wheel tractors
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 16 Apr 2020 at 11:23am |
Thanks guys, I got home from the tire shop with all the tires, rims and new mounted tires. The right rear was the last one to take off the trailer. I went to lift it up, and it felt soft, no air in it. Looked and there was no cap on the valve stem. Thought they must have just forgot to add air after setting the bead. Rolled it off, mounted it on the Ford and added air. Which immediately came out around the valve stem. This was one he told me they put the old tube in. Back off the tractor, back on the trailer, and back to the shop, for a new tube. After that things worked better and I took a nap!
Probably the best pair of spin out rims I have brought home. Not a matched set but still in good shape.
Here is what it looked like out back today. Hunkered down for winter again I guess!:)
Yea these 13.6x 28's don't look out of place at all on the little off color tractor.
Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 16 Apr 2020 at 11:24am
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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tadams(OH)
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Posted: 16 Apr 2020 at 1:27pm |
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Yes there sure look good on there and she sets level.
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