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Time to get it running - coolant leak |
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Ashaman ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 03 Feb 2014 Location: Elbert, CO Points: 134 |
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So my '50 WD is still not running from when the governor weights came apart last summer. I did a compression check a while back and one cylinder was down enough that I pulled the head. Replaced the head gasket with a Felpro from Napa, though I didn't do any copper spray or anything. Torqued to spec, finally got the thermostat housing sealed, but still couldn't get it started. Then I noticed coolant leaking from the head gasket all the way down the left side, enough to drip off the bottom of the block. I was so pissed off and frustrated that I haven't touched it for several months, but I really need to get it running again.
![]() ![]() What could it be? The old head gasket wasn't even blown, so I kinda doubt it warped the head or block. I'm concerned about coolant leaking into the cylinders as well so I haven't tried starting it, which also means the head hasn't been retorqued after a heat cycle. I'm also not sure my magneto ignition timing is still set right, but that's a topic for another post. |
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- Brian
'54 WD (wife's grandfather's - resto?) '50 WD (new workhorse - gets used!) |
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PatrickBeth ![]() Silver Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 04 Oct 2015 Location: Wisconsin Points: 184 |
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Order a new head gasket, copper coat spray, maybe there was a speck of gook left on the head, clean real good, and follow the torque sequence from the book. The wd is tricky with the head bolts under the return manifold. Find a good mechanic with a lifetime of tools in his collection from snap on and he/she may have the trick wrench for the job! It's a good running tractor worth the effort.
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Dick L ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Edon Ohio Points: 5087 |
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You need to check the head real close for cracks. Probly not a head gasket problem. One other thing to check is to see if the holes for the head gasket are dirty enough to tighten to torque and not be tight on the head.
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Ashaman ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 03 Feb 2014 Location: Elbert, CO Points: 134 |
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Guess I'll get another gasket coming from Napa and pull the head again. I ended up using a crowsfoot and conversion factor to torque the nuts under the water neck, and had to use Toyota FIPG (form in place gasket) to get the stupid thing to seal. It's expensive from the dealer, BTW, but totally worth it, and rated for oil. I had some from replacing the oil pans on my new SC300, but I digress.
I'll take a really close look at the head this time. Are these known for cracking in any consistent location? |
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- Brian
'54 WD (wife's grandfather's - resto?) '50 WD (new workhorse - gets used!) |
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MACK ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664 |
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Coat both sides of a new gasket with Hi tack , let dry, then coat head and block with Hi tack. The water outlet gaskets, coat both sides with Hi tack and let dry. (don't coat outlet or top of head) Install head and torque. Before this, clean bolt holes with thread tap, bolt threads, and motor oil on under side of bolt heads and threads. MACK
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RickM(MO) ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: O'Fallon, MO Points: 462 |
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Had a similar problem on my WD 45 with small coolant seepage from head gasket. Took the head off and the gasket looked fine. I found that the threads in head bolt holes were all gummed up. As mentioned above, I ran a tap into the stud bolt holes and cleaned them out thoroughly and applied a little oil to threads before torqueing everything down. It hasn't leaked since and that was ten years ago.
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Missouri Allis Chalmers Club Member; 1954 WD45 (NF), 611LTD & 811GT Lawn Tractors
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Ashaman ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 03 Feb 2014 Location: Elbert, CO Points: 134 |
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Gunk in the holes is a good suggestion, I'll definitely try that. Best way to get the studs out? Double nut?
Any advantage to hi-tack vs copper spray? |
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- Brian
'54 WD (wife's grandfather's - resto?) '50 WD (new workhorse - gets used!) |
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MACK ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664 |
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I always thought copper spray made a better aniseed than gasket sealer. MACK
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MACK ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664 |
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My keys moved again. Antiseeze
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LeonR2013 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Jan 2013 Location: Fulton, Mo Points: 3500 |
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Go to your local head repair shop and ask them what the new stuff is that stops this type of leak. I've tried to think of the name but can't pull it out. If you want me to I'll find out for you. Just contact me and let me know. Leon R Cmo
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DiyDave ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 53925 |
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As long as the coolant aint leaking into the oil pan, I use Blue Devil block sealer, it works pretty good, it contains sodium salicylate, which goes from liquid to solid, when it goes through a leak, and cools down...
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Ashaman ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 03 Feb 2014 Location: Elbert, CO Points: 134 |
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So I'm finally looking back into this. Got the head pulled again and sure enough there was some coolant in a cylinder. Tiny bit of surface rust on cylinder wall, but I'm just gonna run it. I was thinking about some of the above replies, though, and maybe I'm being dumb but why would gunk in the stud holes prevent proper torquing? The clamping force on the head is generated from the nut tightening onto the stud (which should be immobile), not the stud tightening into the hole. Why would cleaning out the stud holes assist in proper torque?
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- Brian
'54 WD (wife's grandfather's - resto?) '50 WD (new workhorse - gets used!) |
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RickM(MO) ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: O'Fallon, MO Points: 462 |
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Ashaman, Early WD's may be different than my WD 45 but mine has cap screws (bolts) at least on the out side of the valve cover where I can see them. The A-C Parts Manual shows a combination of capscrews and studs. Ten capscrews and 5 studs. The A-C Service Manual also recommends checking the tapped holes for thread depth if you have a leaking head gasket and to retap the holes, if necessary. Do you have manuals for your WD? Again, yours may be different if someone put it back together with all studs and no capscrews. The head gasket on mine had a slight leak to the outside of the block when I bought it and I found that the head gasket looked fine (with no coolant in the cylinders and good compression check) but the tapped holes had crud in the threads that was affecting the torque (at least on the capscrews). Hope this helps.
Edited by RickM(MO) - 27 Jun 2016 at 2:35pm |
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Missouri Allis Chalmers Club Member; 1954 WD45 (NF), 611LTD & 811GT Lawn Tractors
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Ashaman ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 03 Feb 2014 Location: Elbert, CO Points: 134 |
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Ah, that makes sense. All of mine are studs. What I did do was tighten the studs a bit, and several of them took very little effort to turn several turns in. Hopefully that cements them in place a little better and gives me some better clamping force. I also painted up the new head gasket with copper stuff, and torqued the head nuts to 75 lb/ft instead of 70 as spec'd. Gotta let the sealant on the water neck dry and I'll fill it with coolant tomorrow. Here's hoping it doesn't leak.....!
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- Brian
'54 WD (wife's grandfather's - resto?) '50 WD (new workhorse - gets used!) |
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RickM(MO) ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: O'Fallon, MO Points: 462 |
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Ashaman, I took a closer look at the Parts Manual and if you have a 1950 WD with Engine No. prior to 289000, then it has all studs and no capscrews. So you were right about the studs all along. Attached is a copy of the Parts Manual Page 43 and Service Manual Pages 11 & 12, in case you don't have them. You said you torqued the studs to 75 lbs. For what it's worth: Page 12 of my Service Manual says to torque to 90 lbs. which I assume is for the 1/2 dia. capscrews on the later heads. My book doesn't say what to torque the studs to and it depends somewhat on what steel they are made of, so hopefully you are Ok at 75 lbs. Maybe someone else will know for sure.
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Missouri Allis Chalmers Club Member; 1954 WD45 (NF), 611LTD & 811GT Lawn Tractors
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SteveM C/IL ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8573 |
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and here's the screwy part...my 45 has 4 studs and the rest capscrews.Studs are fine thd on top and there is no mention of diff torque but you know the clamp will be diff with fine VS coarse.
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Ashaman ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 03 Feb 2014 Location: Elbert, CO Points: 134 |
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Now that really is weird. I'm gonna have to go look at my '54 WD parts tractor/long term project and see what it has. I ran across the 70 or 90 ft lb debate, and it seems that only the 226 engines had the 90 ft lb spec, where the 201's are 70. I basically got the studs nice and tight and then torqued the nuts to 75. It's had coolant in it for a day and a half now and no apparent seepage down the block, so that's good!
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- Brian
'54 WD (wife's grandfather's - resto?) '50 WD (new workhorse - gets used!) |
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Ashaman ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 03 Feb 2014 Location: Elbert, CO Points: 134 |
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The '54 appears to have studs and nuts as well. Very strange.
I ordered all new ignition parts from Steve at B&B, including an electronic ignition, and put it all in today. Still needs some timing adjustment and who knows what else, but it ran tonight for the first time in nearly a year. I'll retorque the head in the morning and keep messing with it. It's not seeping coolant anymore, either! |
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- Brian
'54 WD (wife's grandfather's - resto?) '50 WD (new workhorse - gets used!) |
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21751 |
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Turn the governor link rod around.....you've got it on backwards. Cotter key goes to the inside behind the generator.
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Ashaman ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 03 Feb 2014 Location: Elbert, CO Points: 134 |
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Random observation, but thanks! I'll play with that. Does the direction of curvature matter? I may have to readjust again to get this idle and throttle where I want it.
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- Brian
'54 WD (wife's grandfather's - resto?) '50 WD (new workhorse - gets used!) |
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