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Tell me why it wont work - "homemade" auxiliary tr

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Adam Stratton View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Stratton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Tell me why it wont work - "homemade" auxiliary tr
    Posted: 01 Nov 2018 at 9:07pm
Long story, but what would be wrong with using an older "divorced"transmission like a NP435 or clark 285 as an extra splitter behind a regular transmission to get some extra rpms? I know there are new kits and old Brownlites out there, but having trouble finding any in my price range and location, and I already have the extra transmission from a different project. I was thinking of building an adapter for the splined input shaft to hook it to a standard Ujoint yoke, and turning the add on transmission backward, so that the original input would be the output. With both of the transmissions I have access to, high gear is direct and 3rd in the np and 4th in the Clark are something like 1.3-1.5 to 1, so I would essentially be adding an overdrive. I have an older twin screw grain truck with really slow rearends I was wanting to speed up.Im sure there are better ways to do it, and would probably be simpler to get another truck, but I couldnt help but wonder... Thanks in advance for any wisdom here!
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jaybmiller View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2018 at 5:44am
What you say will work and obviously takes a 'wee' bit of bodging. Sherman adapters are basically the same thing,just compact. First item of business is to get another drive shaft. Do NOT cut the original ! That way anything goes wrong you can make the rig whole again and drive it.
Spinning ain't the fun, it's getting the shifter linkage to work nice and smooth.
Providing you've got the time and space ,it'll make an 'interesting' Winter project. If you do it, be sure to write down all the ujoints and other parts, keep a 2nd list in the truck just in case one of them breaks.
Jay
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Les Royer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Les Royer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2018 at 7:15am
I was dollowing alomg with this pretty good until I came to the part where you're turning a gear box around and running it backwards. (UNless I'm reading this wrong) But if you do that, you're now placing the load on the other side of the teeth in the gear box and with the helical gears shaped the way they are probably isn't designed for that side of the gear to withstand that kind of load, not to mention the noise that would be generated by it.

Also the input shaft, which is typically the smallest shaft in the transmission is being asked to withstand pressure  without the aid of bearing support which it normally has with a pilot bearing inside the center of the flywheel. I would tend to think you'd be lucky to make it out of the driveway.
I still gots my A/C but it's clear out in the barn now.
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darrel in ND View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darrel in ND Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2018 at 7:23am
I have to side with Les on this. Putting the second transmission backward is the deal breaker. Putting it forward will work. I know of a couple out there like that. One was a hay hauler truck with a mounted stack mover on it. The builder of that truck needed to get a gear slow enough to make ground speed match the speed of the chains on the stack mover. It worked. Not sure what combination of 5 speed and 4 speed transmissions he had, but he had LOTS of gears. It had a gear that would allow it to creep backward while loading and creep forward while un-loading. Also had a gear that would do 80 MPH down the hi way, plus anything in between. Darrel
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Dakota Dave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dakota Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2018 at 7:37am
running helical cut gears reversed with any load is bad. normally the torque pulls the gears together. reversed the force pushes the gears apart. the case splits since its not designed to withstand that force. old straight cut gears can be run in either direction. if your running a gas engine grain truck gearing wont really help your going to run out of power before you see any increase in speed.
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Adam Stratton View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Stratton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2018 at 7:56am
THANK YOU! I knew you all would figure out the flaw in the plan! I was concerned about the weakness of the shaft but hadn't thought about the gear wear. That is the deal breaker. My plan was to put the truck part (early 70s Ford) to a mid 90s GMC cab and chassis with a 3116 cat and an Allison trans. The CAT redlines at 2800, which coupled to a 7.0 rearend would give me a top-end speed of a water turtle. Guess I need to find a Brownie or another plan. Thank you all for saving me a lot of frustration!
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DMiller View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2018 at 7:59am
We built a few aux gearboxes from old standard transmissions years ago, worked somewhat OK but noisy, required a lot of effort to make them function at all and in the end more costly than the add in gear sets between bell and existing trans. Unless you can actually buy a fully divorced box there is no clean way to adapt a u-joint yoke to a input shaft and keep it true enough/balanced enough to not vibrate the rest of the drive train to death. Anything and everything we built ended up relegated to field work never put on the road for that reason.
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Dakota Dave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dakota Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2018 at 8:59am

The farm I drove beets for had the axles regeared and difflocks added on every truck they had built. its not a do it yourself. but a good truck shop could change the gearing of your axles. it only took them two days to do both axles on the freight liner.

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HudCo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HudCo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2018 at 9:41am
not too many guys can drive a set of sticks any more, or have even seen them
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tadams(OH) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tadams(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2018 at 2:12pm
Nothing like running a 2 stick truck

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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2018 at 4:33pm
4th in the Clark are something like 1.3-1.5 to 1, so I would essentially be adding an overdrive.......... so why not just put a transmission with an OD in it ?? you don't need 15 gears, just a top end.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2018 at 4:35pm
one of your biggest problems is going to be alignment, and torque / roll..... the original trans is bolted SOLID to the bellhousing/ motor .... what keeps the NEW transmission in line ?
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Walker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Walker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2018 at 4:54pm
Read up on the Mack Triplex and Duplex transmissions. They kept you busy shifting gears, one had two gearshifts, the other three.
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SteveM C/IL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2018 at 9:56pm
Save the hell and get higher ration pumpkins from the bone yard.You'll look back and thank yourself. Used takeouts aren't that expensive.
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HudCo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HudCo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2018 at 10:27pm
brownie box is just mounted in the frame just like a un married tranfer case is with a short drive shaft  
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ac fleet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ac fleet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 6:37pm
In a truck of that size,---a LOT of torque to deal with!--- Higher ratio ring/pinion set would be the way to go, BUT, an aux. 3 speed ( 1 under---2 direct---3 overdrive) would be good.--thats what I had in my old 54 chevy 6500 grain truck with single speed rear and 261 motor.--the aux gave a BUNCH of gears, BUT tricky to shift!-- the box was bolted solid from the top with a 10" channel across the frame.
I was kicking around the idea of running a 4 speed backwards in it , but decided that the side load on the input shaft would not stand up to serious use.---If attempting this, you would need to have an extra bearing to support what the clutch/bellhousing/etc supports when ran the regular way.----running backwards could be a problem with the gears too. thanks; ac fleet
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 11:40am
Been driving a Ford tandem dump with CAT engine and Allison - it has 2 speed rear ends coupled with it - decent power most times and not a lot of use of the 2 speed . 
 Now have 5 x 4 in my old White 6-200A engin trucks 6:38 rear ends - top RPM 3400
My GMC gas has RT613 direct and 7:34 rears - dang 427 engine needs to be up to 5200 or so RPM to go down highway at speed 
 About the best one gets with overdrive on secondary is 1.3 increase 
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"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Michael V (NM) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 1:13pm
Another thing to think about,, when ya turn a regular transmission around,, you will only have 1 direct gear and 3 overdrive, now that granny low becomes a tremendous OD...
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DaveKamp View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 10:13pm
I was considering doing something similar with a 4spd auxiliary that I have here... got a truck with a two-speed (6.38 and 8.15 ratios) so 45mph is a screaming engine... not up to today's highway speeds.

The two-speed is nice, but It's not a 'modern' rear axle, so getting new R&P to fit it is probably not likely at any 'reasonable' budget... (sigh)... 
I feel your pain... yes I do...
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Adam Stratton View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Stratton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2018 at 5:29pm
Thank you for all the comments. It sounds like im either going to live with the slow speed or keep looking for a brownie. The twin screw is a bit of an oddball, so trying to find different gears to swap is probably out of the question. I hate to spend too much on this(or anything really!) but I want something reliable and easy. Like so many things, easy, cheap, and reliable dont all 3 get said in the same breath. Thanks again
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2018 at 11:59pm
Adam... I have an auxiliary transmission that came out of a GMC twin-screw truck... Don't remember the exact model offhand, but I THINK it was a Spicer 7XXX... it has an overdrive, one direct, and two reductions... I THINK the OD was a 0.73 ratio.  It's physically too big and heavy for my Studebaker project (it's a 2-ton, and not long enough) so I'll probably hafta find a different rearend... something that's more like 3.93 and 5.08... in order to give me interstate highway speeds with the engine and transmission I'd like to run...  but if your twin-screw truck has room for big and heavy, PM me your email, and I'll go take pix, perhaps this is what you need.
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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