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Tell me why it wont work - "homemade" auxiliary tr |
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Adam Stratton ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: SW MO Points: 1363 |
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Long story, but what would be wrong with using an older "divorced"transmission like a NP435 or clark 285 as an extra splitter behind a regular transmission to get some extra rpms? I know there are new kits and old Brownlites out there, but having trouble finding any in my price range and location, and I already have the extra transmission from a different project. I was thinking of building an adapter for the splined input shaft to hook it to a standard Ujoint yoke, and turning the add on transmission backward, so that the original input would be the output. With both of the transmissions I have access to, high gear is direct and 3rd in the np and 4th in the Clark are something like 1.3-1.5 to 1, so I would essentially be adding an overdrive. I have an older twin screw grain truck with really slow rearends I was wanting to speed up.Im sure there are better ways to do it, and would probably be simpler to get another truck, but I couldnt help but wonder... Thanks in advance for any wisdom here!
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jaybmiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 24336 |
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What you say will work and obviously takes a 'wee' bit of bodging. Sherman adapters are basically the same thing,just compact. First item of business is to get another drive shaft. Do NOT cut the original ! That way anything goes wrong you can make the rig whole again and drive it. Spinning ain't the fun, it's getting the shifter linkage to work nice and smooth. Providing you've got the time and space ,it'll make an 'interesting' Winter project. If you do it, be sure to write down all the ujoints and other parts, keep a 2nd list in the truck just in case one of them breaks. Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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Les Royer ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 25 Dec 2014 Location: Carson, Iowa Points: 5593 |
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I was dollowing alomg with this pretty good until I came to the part where you're turning a gear box around and running it backwards. (UNless I'm reading this wrong) But if you do that, you're now placing the load on the other side of the teeth in the gear box and with the helical gears shaped the way they are probably isn't designed for that side of the gear to withstand that kind of load, not to mention the noise that would be generated by it. Also the input shaft, which is typically the smallest shaft in the transmission is being asked to withstand pressure without the aid of bearing support which it normally has with a pilot bearing inside the center of the flywheel. I would tend to think you'd be lucky to make it out of the driveway.
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I still gots my A/C but it's clear out in the barn now.
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darrel in ND ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Hebron, ND Points: 8688 |
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I have to side with Les on this. Putting the second transmission backward is the deal breaker. Putting it forward will work. I know of a couple out there like that. One was a hay hauler truck with a mounted stack mover on it. The builder of that truck needed to get a gear slow enough to make ground speed match the speed of the chains on the stack mover. It worked. Not sure what combination of 5 speed and 4 speed transmissions he had, but he had LOTS of gears. It had a gear that would allow it to creep backward while loading and creep forward while un-loading. Also had a gear that would do 80 MPH down the hi way, plus anything in between. Darrel
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Dakota Dave ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: ND Points: 3964 |
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running helical cut gears reversed with any load is bad. normally the torque pulls the gears together. reversed the force pushes the gears apart. the case splits since its not designed to withstand that force. old straight cut gears can be run in either direction. if your running a gas engine grain truck gearing wont really help your going to run out of power before you see any increase in speed.
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Adam Stratton ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: SW MO Points: 1363 |
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THANK YOU! I knew you all would figure out the flaw in the plan! I was concerned about the weakness of the shaft but hadn't thought about the gear wear. That is the deal breaker. My plan was to put the truck part (early 70s Ford) to a mid 90s GMC cab and chassis with a 3116 cat and an Allison trans. The CAT redlines at 2800, which coupled to a 7.0 rearend would give me a top-end speed of a water turtle. Guess I need to find a Brownie or another plan. Thank you all for saving me a lot of frustration!
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DMiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 33121 |
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We built a few aux gearboxes from old standard transmissions years ago, worked somewhat OK but noisy, required a lot of effort to make them function at all and in the end more costly than the add in gear sets between bell and existing trans. Unless you can actually buy a fully divorced box there is no clean way to adapt a u-joint yoke to a input shaft and keep it true enough/balanced enough to not vibrate the rest of the drive train to death. Anything and everything we built ended up relegated to field work never put on the road for that reason.
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Dakota Dave ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: ND Points: 3964 |
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The farm I drove beets for had the axles regeared and difflocks added on every truck they had built. its not a do it yourself. but a good truck shop could change the gearing of your axles. it only took them two days to do both axles on the freight liner. |
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HudCo ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Location: Plymouth Utah Points: 3765 |
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not too many guys can drive a set of sticks any more, or have even seen them
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tadams(OH) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Location: Jeromesville, O Points: 10609 |
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Nothing like running a 2 stick truck
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 85482 |
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4th in the Clark are something like 1.3-1.5 to 1, so I would essentially be adding an overdrive.......... so why not just put a transmission with an OD in it ?? you don't need 15 gears, just a top end.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 85482 |
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one of your biggest problems is going to be alignment, and torque / roll..... the original trans is bolted SOLID to the bellhousing/ motor .... what keeps the NEW transmission in line ?
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Walker ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: oh Points: 8726 |
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Read up on the Mack Triplex and Duplex transmissions. They kept you busy shifting gears, one had two gearshifts, the other three.
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SteveM C/IL ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8471 |
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Save the hell and get higher ration pumpkins from the bone yard.You'll look back and thank yourself. Used takeouts aren't that expensive.
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HudCo ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Location: Plymouth Utah Points: 3765 |
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brownie box is just mounted in the frame just like a un married tranfer case is with a short drive shaft
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ac fleet ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Jan 2014 Location: Arrowsmith, ILL Points: 2324 |
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In a truck of that size,---a LOT of torque to deal with!--- Higher ratio ring/pinion set would be the way to go, BUT, an aux. 3 speed ( 1 under---2 direct---3 overdrive) would be good.--thats what I had in my old 54 chevy 6500 grain truck with single speed rear and 261 motor.--the aux gave a BUNCH of gears, BUT tricky to shift!-- the box was bolted solid from the top with a 10" channel across the frame. I was kicking around the idea of running a 4 speed backwards in it , but decided that the side load on the input shaft would not stand up to serious use.---If attempting this, you would need to have an extra bearing to support what the clutch/bellhousing/etc supports when ran the regular way.----running backwards could be a problem with the gears too. thanks; ac fleet
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Coke-in-MN ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Afton MN Points: 41819 |
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Been driving a Ford tandem dump with CAT engine and Allison - it has 2 speed rear ends coupled with it - decent power most times and not a lot of use of the 2 speed .
Now have 5 x 4 in my old White 6-200A engin trucks 6:38 rear ends - top RPM 3400 My GMC gas has RT613 direct and 7:34 rears - dang 427 engine needs to be up to 5200 or so RPM to go down highway at speed About the best one gets with overdrive on secondary is 1.3 increase |
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
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Michael V (NM) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: NM Points: 2444 |
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Another thing to think about,, when ya turn a regular transmission around,, you will only have 1 direct gear and 3 overdrive, now that granny low becomes a tremendous OD...
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DaveKamp ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5958 |
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I was considering doing something similar with a 4spd auxiliary that I have here... got a truck with a two-speed (6.38 and 8.15 ratios) so 45mph is a screaming engine... not up to today's highway speeds. The two-speed is nice, but It's not a 'modern' rear axle, so getting new R&P to fit it is probably not likely at any 'reasonable' budget... (sigh)... I feel your pain... yes I do...
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Adam Stratton ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: SW MO Points: 1363 |
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Thank you for all the comments. It sounds like im either going to live with the slow speed or keep looking for a brownie. The twin screw is a bit of an oddball, so trying to find different gears to swap is probably out of the question. I hate to spend too much on this(or anything really!) but I want something reliable and easy. Like so many things, easy, cheap, and reliable dont all 3 get said in the same breath. Thanks again
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DaveKamp ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5958 |
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Adam... I have an auxiliary transmission that came out of a GMC twin-screw truck... Don't remember the exact model offhand, but I THINK it was a Spicer 7XXX... it has an overdrive, one direct, and two reductions... I THINK the OD was a 0.73 ratio. It's physically too big and heavy for my Studebaker project (it's a 2-ton, and not long enough) so I'll probably hafta find a different rearend... something that's more like 3.93 and 5.08... in order to give me interstate highway speeds with the engine and transmission I'd like to run... but if your twin-screw truck has room for big and heavy, PM me your email, and I'll go take pix, perhaps this is what you need.
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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