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Swinging Drawbar?

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CrestonM View Drop Down
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    Posted: 25 Aug 2018 at 10:12pm
I've heard debate over this, but does a swinging drawbar allow for easier turns when pulling a ground engaging implement, like a disc, with a 2wd tractor? Example, pulling a 7' tandem disc with a WC in sandy soil. 
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Dick L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2018 at 11:01pm
Yes!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2018 at 1:47am
yes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeO(CMO) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2018 at 6:36am
Yes!




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CrestonM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CrestonM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2018 at 8:53am
Haha, alright. Here's the reason I asked...I have an Allis No. 9 tandem drag disc I use for working deer plots, and the area is really sandy. I've used the 8N to pull it, because it's my biggest tractor, but it struggles in this ground. Here's a photo from February. 

As you can see, the disc penetrates really deep. Granted, there are weights on it, but after trying to make 1 pass, I took them off. They only weighed about 50 lbs each. Even without them, the disc still goes up to the gang axles in the soil. The tractor doesn't struggle too hard going straight, but the problem comes when turning. I've thought about getting a swinging drawbar for it, but I don't know if that will make enough difference to justify still using the 8N, or whether I need more weight/horses from a W series tractor. Right now, it tends to lug down and spin quite a bit when turning if the gangs are set very aggressive. 

I know, I know, it's a Ford, but I'm trying to work with what I've got. 
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Michael V (NM) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Michael V (NM) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2018 at 11:43am
Looks to me like another reason to get ya a WD/WD45....
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CrestonM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CrestonM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2018 at 1:35pm
I'm kinda thinking so too, Michael. I like the looks of the unstyled WC, but I'm wondering if it struggles as well in this soft ground if a swinging drawbar would help it out some. I may have to borrow a WC from a friend and try it out first. 
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shameless dude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 1:05am
straighten the gangs out on the disk more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 2:06am
Originally posted by shameless dude shameless dude wrote:

straighten the gangs out on the disk more.

That’s what you have to do with a Ferd, lighten the load😺
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 6:04am
Even with a WC and the disc buried like without a swinging drawbar. The leverage sticking out straight behind the rear tires is going to make the tractor want to go straight rather than turn. It is like trying to pull the tractor sideways from the drawbar. The front will want to plow and soft rear tire will want to roll over and start to loose traction on the outside tire. Then both loose traction as they tend to dig in and take more power.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B26240 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 6:05am
I agree a swinging drawbar will lighten the load but I think they are hard on the bolts that hold the draw bar bracket.    Time to move up to a WD or WD45 or something bigger than Gramps Ford.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 7:14am
Creston,
A WD45 would be perfect for pulling those combines too! Better get one!:)
Regards,
 Chris

D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 7:23am
suggestion...
when discing try this way as it means NO sharp turns.
think of the field marked as below..

A B C D E F G H I J K L

head north  on A, then south on G
head north on B, then south on H
head north on C, then south on I
repeat for the rest of the field.

yes, you'll go over the 'top and bottm'( headlands ??) often but maybe that's a good thing, keeps the weeds down ??
 there's probably a term for this but,well, I ain't a real farmer..

you might be better with 1 disc and drag harrows, soil looks like it 'cuts' real nice

Jay
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CrestonM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 8:09am
Originally posted by PaulB PaulB wrote:

Originally posted by shameless dude shameless dude wrote:

straighten the gangs out on the disk more.

That’s what you have to do with a Ferd, lighten the load😺
The rear gang is already straight and the fronts are in the notch just after straight. Kinda sad, really!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CrestonM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 8:14am
Originally posted by jaybmiller jaybmiller wrote:

suggestion...
when discing try this way as it means NO sharp turns.
think of the field marked as below..

A B C D E F G H I J K L

head north  on A, then south on G
head north on B, then south on H
head north on C, then south on I
repeat for the rest of the field.

yes, you'll go over the 'top and bottm'( headlands ??) often but maybe that's a good thing, keeps the weeds down ??
 there's probably a term for this but,well, I ain't a real farmer..

you might be better with 1 disc and drag harrows, soil looks like it 'cuts' real nice

Jay

Thanks, Jay. Yes, I try to follow a pattern similar to that, as it's the only way I can turn at all. The one thing that helps most is driving out of the plowed ground and turning in the tall grass, as that keeps the disc from penetrating as much. 
I just need a bigger tractor I guess. Or a 3pt disc. I have a 7' 3pt disc at home I use, and it handles it great. I've just never taken it out to the deer plots because it won't fit on our trailer unless you load it slanted. It's too wide both ways. 


Edited by CrestonM - 27 Aug 2018 at 8:17am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian F(IL) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 8:36am
As others have pointed out, I don't believe it's the need for a swinging drawbar as much as it is the need for more horsepower and/or weight of the tractor.  No offense intended.  The 8N is an adequate tractor for some jobs but I think you're asking more of it than it can deliver.

I pulled a 10' #10 Allis discs in some sandy loam ground with a WD-45 once upon a time.  As you've probably noted, the disc tends to ridge on the endrows if you turn it too short.  I believe my great-grandfather pulled the same disc with an unstyled WC at one time.

Good luck!
Brian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CrestonM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 9:18am
No offense taken, I too believe a bigger tractor is needed. I was just wondering if a swinging drawbar would make enough difference to justify still using the 8N. Guess the only way to know is to try and find out. I believe I know a guy who would let me borrow his WC to give it a trial run before I buy my own. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CALEBnOK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2018 at 5:09pm
A wc will pull that like it's not even back there. When I had the disc I could pull 3rd gear with the F-20 on steel.
The family that disc came from were using a C allis in the sandy river bottom

Edited by CALEBnOK - 30 Aug 2018 at 5:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CrestonM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2018 at 5:42pm
That's pretty impressive! I don't know, gut feeling tells me my B wouldn't pull it, even with 90# in each wheel, and the belly sickle mower on it. 
I do like the WC unstyled tractors quite a bit...I may have to bite the bullet someday, although I really probably have too many tractors as it is. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2018 at 9:24pm
put a rotor tiller on it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allisrutledge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2018 at 6:17am
How far from the center of the rear axle is the hitch pin? If you can shorten the hitch and still turn it without hitting the tires it will turn easier.
Allis Chalmers still exist in my mind and barns
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2018 at 6:48am
If I had to drive Ferd like that, I'd look for a 3-pt mounted disk. That would solve all your problems, including turning. Too bad there aren't small farm auctions like there use to be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2018 at 6:49am
Anyone that thinks a swing drawbar is not necessary has never pulled a disc, cultipacker with a spring tooth hooked behind the packer over several thousand acres of ground when a large field would have been 20 acres or less. I used a swing drawbar on my Oliver 1850 with any implements that didn't have wheels that lifted the implement at the ends. Without the swing drawbar it is not only harder on tires it also takes more brake to keep the front from plowing making the turns.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CrestonM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2018 at 7:50am
Originally posted by allisrutledge allisrutledge wrote:

How far from the center of the rear axle is the hitch pin? If you can shorten the hitch and still turn it without hitting the tires it will turn easier.
I'm not sure what the numbers are, but it's the correct SAE length from the tip of the PTO to the drawbar hole. So that length plus another couple inches for the PTO length, and that's how far it is. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2018 at 9:20am
14 inches, Creston.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CrestonM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2018 at 9:30am
Thanks. So it's somewhere in that neighborhood. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2018 at 3:56pm
Hey Creston, is that you I saw on youtube giving a class on the finer points of a Gleaner?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CrestonM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2018 at 4:31pm
Lonn, it could have been. 
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