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740Miller 
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 Topic: Stanadyne pump
Posted: 07 Oct 2020 at 6:55pm |
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DB2 4424 pump questions.
How do I turn the fuel down on this pump?
How do I get my RPM up to 2300?
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DrAllis
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Posted: 07 Oct 2020 at 7:40pm |
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If the pump is currently set for less than 2300 RPM top speed, you can just use two 5/16"s wrenches and lengthen the high idle screw to get it where you want to be. You don't say the application, so be sure that the throttle linkage/cable actually strokes far enough to take advantage of the change you have just made. Are you even sure your current throttle linkage is stroking the pumps throttle lever 100% ?? Turning fuel down externally is easy. Remove seal wire and plastic cover from the torque screw which is positioned at a 45 degree angle just around the corner from where the high idle stop screw is.
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740Miller
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Posted: 07 Oct 2020 at 8:07pm |
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This pump is used on my 6070. 433T motor .it used to run at 2300 rpm . About a year and 1/2 ago I sent it out to be reworked. This is the way I got it back. I'm just now finding the time to work on this project again. Thanks for your answer. I'll check these adjustments
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DrAllis
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Posted: 07 Oct 2020 at 8:51pm |
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Actually, that engine should run 2500 RPM at full throttle no load. Better make sure your throttle linkage (at the pump lever) is adjusted right.
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740Miller
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Posted: 07 Oct 2020 at 9:34pm |
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Ok Thanks Dr.Allis, I was just going by what the pump tag said. I Will definitely check this out
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DrAllis
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Posted: 07 Oct 2020 at 9:42pm |
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2300 is rated full load speed. Engine runs 2500 wide open and when pulled down to 2300 it has 73 HP at the PTO.
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 08 Oct 2020 at 7:32am |
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If it was sent out to be re-worked, I'd be asking the shop that did the rework. Any COMPETENT injection pump rebuild shop will have everything set exactly where it needs to be. Perhaps you were one of the victims of "I fix you pump cheap" lol!
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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740Miller
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Posted: 08 Oct 2020 at 9:44am |
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I probably was , but I didn't think it was cheap
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740Miller
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Posted: 08 Oct 2020 at 10:24am |
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I probably was , but I didn't think it was cheap.
NFlow in Indiana did the rebuild.
I do have another question regarding timing.
How do I find 18° BTDC if My marks are worn/rusted away?
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DrAllis
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Posted: 08 Oct 2020 at 10:48am |
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Emery cloth usually makes them show thru the rust. If you aligned the timing marks in the pump together before removal, don't worry about the crank pulley numbers. Just assemble the pump the same as it was as when you removed it.
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740Miller
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Posted: 11 Oct 2020 at 5:38pm |
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Well this is my update. I've been trying to correct what I thought was a fuel problem.
Tractor was out of framed April 2019. Old block had a crack so I changed the block, Cam ,etc.etc.
The tractor had a lot of blow by after fresh overhaul. I assumed it would have gone away after she seated the rings.
I don't use her for anything other than my loader and or needing the 4wd.
Engine started running rough, I resent injectors out for another inspection.
They came back fine.
Pump was sent out and rebuilt by NFlow. I'm still having problems . I rechecked valve lash and re adjusted.
I was leaning towards a bad pump repair and was asking for advice on this pump. I kept checking timing and everything was good.
I finally put my compression tester on and got the following.
No. 1 200
2 210
3 0
4 220
I thought must of had a Burnt valve. Put my leak down tester on . Never got a whistle of air from intake or exhaust.
Retested no.3 -0
Motor is now apart. No 3 piston has a serious piece between the rings missing. Some of the rings were broken to smithereens.
I looked at the liners of the other cylinders and noticed some questionable wear marks. So I pulled them also.
More bad news. No 4 has a crack and a broken piece between the top two combustion rings. No2 small crack near same area and I'm pretty sure I see the same on No 1.
What the hell caused this?
I probably only have about 175 -200 hours on this overhaul.
This isn't my first overhaul, I've done plenty of Cats, and Detroit's over the years
I'm sick
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DrAllis
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Posted: 11 Oct 2020 at 6:45pm |
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When I see broken rings and ring lands, I always assume the one bad word..... ether. If these were used pistons and sleeves maybe the ring lands were already cracked and now they ate their pigs. I had a pulling tractor one time built from used pistons and sleeves and one piston broke a ring land after 4 or 5 passes down the track. No good reason other than I didn't think there was anything wrong with it when assembling it, but there must have been. Crap happens...……….
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Bill_MN
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Posted: 11 Oct 2020 at 6:53pm |
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What sort of questionable wear marks? If it was all new parts sounds like maybe tight ring gaps or rings put in wrong way, I would think you'd have problems sooner than 200 hours though. Were the rings marked or tapered on one side? Not all that sure but seems like ring related. Also agree with ether damage.
Edited by Bill_MN - 11 Oct 2020 at 6:54pm
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1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow
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tbran
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Posted: 11 Oct 2020 at 7:39pm |
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severely advanced timing plus ether =
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When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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740Miller
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Posted: 11 Oct 2020 at 8:48pm |
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These parts were brand new and rings came in the kit installed. And no I don't use it as a pulling tractor. I'm trying to figure out what exactly happened . Thanks for your input
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DrAllis
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Posted: 11 Oct 2020 at 9:34pm |
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So, what exactly was the injection pump timed at ??
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740Miller
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Posted: 11 Oct 2020 at 9:47pm |
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18° btdc.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 11 Oct 2020 at 9:48pm |
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New parts ??? I'd be talking with my Supplier.
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 8:55am |
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AMBAC injectors installed the wrong way? It simply amazes me how many question the injection pump when things aren't right lol!
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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DrAllis
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Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 9:17am |
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I wondered about the injectors being backwards too, but why do I keep thinking all those engines had Bob Bosch ??
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740Miller
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Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 9:27am |
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I fail to see how they were installed backwards. Kinda hard to do since my return line only enters at one place?
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I wouldn't be asking questions if I knew the answers.
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 9:30am |
Some had American Bosch(AMBAC) and some had Robert Bosch. Both styles are listed on AGCO parts books. I've even had a few from 301's, but most were from 433's. Not sure if one was before the other, or just mixed in whenever, but they are entirely different, and I would not mix them in the same engine. So to the op, this one has AC injectors, with return line on top and injection line on side? Those do only fit one way. The bar stock injectors many times get flipped around 180* when people think the return is easier to access being away from the valve cover. Unfortunately, the holes in the nozzle are positioned to put the injector with the return line towards the valve cover, keeping in mind the injector sits in the head at an angle. Good luck with the repair, hope you figure something out.
Edited by injpumpEd - 12 Oct 2020 at 9:34am
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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DrAllis
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Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 9:33am |
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But, Can the Bob Bosch injectors be installed backwards like the AmBach ?? I'm drawing a blank on that question...…….
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740Miller
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Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 9:49am |
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My injectors are the stock injectors, my return lines are on the side facing valve cover. My fuel is injected in the top. So according to your description I'm thinking they are Robert Boshe?
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DrAllis
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Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 9:54am |
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Return lines are a banjo type fitting located on the valve cover side sounds like AmBach to me and that is installed correctly, Yes.
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 10:23am |
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The Robert Bosch and American Bosch look almost identical, it's the internals that are completely different. Return to the vc side is correct, so at least that didn't cause the issue, most guys can't tell the difference without looking at the name on the side. Now if one had a split tip or not spraying a correct pattern could lead to failure. What was the engine like before overhaul? Did it have any catastrophic failure like this time? Or was it simply worn out?
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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740Miller
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Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 11:52am |
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It actually ran fine, but she was tired plus it was time to do the bearings on my balncer
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Boss Man
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Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 4:44pm |
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I would contact the parts supplier and or local engine machine shop/ rebuilder. My former employer all most went bankrupt because one of his vendors had bad pistons. Wasn't till he had talked to the local machine shop/ rebuilder that he found out there had been a recall.
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740Miller
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Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 5:47pm |
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Thanks, I have reached out to them. I'm waiting on warranty to call back. I wish I knew how to post a picture here. The way this piston and the one behind it are coming apart looks to me like a defect. The plane is cracked between the compression rings, not only cracked but it looks like another ring. Kinda like a ring on a tree. If that makes sense.
Thank all you guys for your answers. Never to old to learn something new
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DrAllis
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Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 6:03pm |
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The top ring groove for sure in an OEM piston is made of steel or cast iron. It is not aluminum. This is often referred to as an "armored groove" for durability. If it is 100% aluminum, that will never hold up like an OEM piston.
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