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Sickle mower cutting for hay question

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Hunt4Allis View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20 Jun 2020 at 8:29pm
Can it just be cut and lay without tedding, and then round bailed with plastic netting on the outside?(a three day period with no rain I'm saying...)
They are a 4 foot by 5-foot Bale and would be stored outside in the field...
Thanks Matt 👍
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote exSW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2020 at 8:41pm
I've done it. Lots of times. Got to have three really good days though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2020 at 10:01pm
I was always in understanding that you would run it through a conditioner to crack the wax coating to allow proper drying. But the big dairy by me just switched to disc mower with no conditioner then was tedding last year then merging together to chop. This year was so dry they weren't tedding.
So give a try and see.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary Burnett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2020 at 3:06am
I mow hay with a New Holland 456 sickle bar mower then rake and bale it if its really hot with some strong breezes next day,almost always by the 2nd day.Make about 400 round bales a year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2020 at 5:33am
OK , I have to ask...
is 'tedding' the operation where you 'flip over' the hay to get the 'bottom' side to dry ??
I can see why some don't do it.. fewer operations  means crop gets inside faster for less money(fuel).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2020 at 6:10am
Hunt4allis, folks,
 Thats the way we made hay for years when I was a kid. We did not have a tedder. Sometimes we may have had to rake it again to turn the windrow over again prior to baling. Made some very nice hay. Yes your going to have to put several good days together. My dad never worried if the mowed hay got rinsed. We baled it anyway when it got dry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2020 at 6:27am
I echo what Sugarmaker said.
When I was a kid, everything was mowed, raked, sometimes raked again to turn the green spots up to dry, then baled. After I got a little older, we had an Oliver crimper, with teo steel meshing rolls. The crimper really shortened drying time. (It was also very loud !) I learned in later years it wasn't fun to clean out the crimper, after it plugged. 
The Amish in our are still make hay the same way. Most use a hayloader, but some use a baler. Some tow the baler with a forecart and others use it as a stationary press.
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Hunt4Allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2020 at 6:32am
Okay thanks all for the great info, I'll try to put a couple days together with no rain then give it a try!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FREEDGUY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2020 at 6:41am
Jaybmiller, I just watched a YT video of a "tedder" in action and all it does is fling/spread the windrow (quite violently IMO) out into  a thin layer that covers the entire ground. When I worked for multiple dairy farms in the summer haying, we ran NH haybines with the crimper rolls, spread the swath about 2/3 of the cut width (2 guys had 9', 1 guy had a 7')  and only rake the windrow once (unless it got rained on after raking Confused) as we didn't want any excess leaves getting beaten off of the stems, nor did we drive on the windrow any more than necessary, the dude in the video was driving down the center of 2  and sometimes at a 30* angle across the windrows !! I guess hay making has changed in the last 35 years LOL !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GregStremel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2020 at 8:38am
we use a Tedder for every thing except prairie hay whI have dries in half a day.

The Tedder throws hay out the back.  You set it so the tines pick up all the hay, especially what is on the bottom. I run the pto fairly fast so it really throws it (this is for grass hay).  Green throws a greater distance than dry.  As you are driving, this means that the green lands on top of the dry.

In our fescue world, it really means the hay will be ready to bake at least one day sooner.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jiminnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2020 at 8:40am
We used to just mow and rake later and bale, just need good days. The saying here is "if you need rain just cut some hay".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2020 at 9:12am
In the early 70’s when I first remember, we cut with a sickle mower and would leave it lay, rake it when the top was dry, then that would dry but usually the bottom was wet again from the humidity. Rake it again and hopefully bale that time. The number of days gone by by then would vary, and usually the hay was pretty bleached out by then.

Then we got a pull behind conditioner, that helped but was kind of a miserable machine. Finally got our first mower conditioner which was the same drying time but saved a trip around the field.

The issue here is humidity. It’s so late in the day when the dew comes off, you rake it and may not get dry before the dew falls again. So our next machine was an Inverter. It is more gentle than a second raking and even better it flips it EXACTLY over for best drying. Still can be days. Cut it, usually 2 days to rake it, usually another day then invert it and bale a couple hours after inverting. Early in the season when the hay is young and thick it’s almost always 4 days best case. Rain comes and it’s a 2 day reset.

Very frustrating to make good dry hay around here. Pretty sure a tedder would help a lot, but haven’t spent the money yet.   Then would need someone to do it when I’m at work.

The bottom of the row gets wet from the dew and humidity every day. One thing for sure Jay, less trips doesn’t get it done quicker, you have to work it.

Would love to all but give up on dry hay and go to chopping it all or line wrapping. But talk about spending money!

Edited by Tbone95 - 21 Jun 2020 at 9:13am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2020 at 9:14am
Mikez,

If the disc mower the dairy operator you mentioned is a tow behind, swing type (which I would expect a dairy to have, not just the cutter bar type) it most likely has crimper rolls or an impeller type conditioner built in. One pass does both.

The need to tedd hay depends on a number of things. The hay, the weather, the ground the hay is on and the cutting method/equipment are some key factors. If the hay is light, ground under it is dry, and the weather is dry it isn't needed. Thick, heavy hay needs to be stirred here as it won't dry to the bottom in a reasonable time (or the available weather window) just laying there. This is hay cut with a disc mower conditioner with impeller conditioner, which gives a windrow, which needs to be spread out to dry. We usually have some moisture in the ground that will stay on the underside of the windrow, slowing drying in the bottom more. The windrows let the ground between them dry some before the first tedding to spread the windrow out. Sometimes we get by with a couple rounds of tedding, seldom just once, and other times it may take three or four times. Years ago an orchard I worked for mowed a lot of fields for mulch hay with a sickle cutter bar. We didn't tedd the hay, just rolled it with the rake a couple times. Just my thoughts.

Edited by Jim.ME - 21 Jun 2020 at 9:14am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac fleet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2020 at 11:19am
The least amount of messin with it the more leaves you save. I only mow, rake, bale. and rake with small light tractor. --- saves a lot of the leaves that way. rake before it gets too dry or you will lose all the leaves.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick of HopeIN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2020 at 11:29am
Sickle bars were mostly retired by the time I was baling in the 60s and 70s. Replaced by mower conditioners of various types. But even then, guys who ran sickle bars could typically mow in morning, rake next morning and start baling by noon that same day. Actually the baler usually started more like 10:00 so first loads may have been a little damp. I think the idea was to err on the green side to save leaves on the clover hay.
Mowed even when cloudy, otherwise the dairy operations would never have got it all in.

Edited by Rick of HopeIN - 21 Jun 2020 at 11:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr p Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2020 at 7:59pm
Study at miner institute showed that if it is just grass, mowing with just a sickle bar will dry grass hay faster than mowing and conditioner. Impeller was the fastest. Think conditioning broke the stems so transpiration slowed dow. Might be one of those studies my dad used to tell me when o was at cornell" if that is what they want you to write on the test, great, but leave that crap nonsense at school please "
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC720Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2020 at 9:15pm

I went old school this year, for 2 reasons. Our first cutting orchard grass was tuff last year because we had too much rain and it prevented us from making it on time last year. Even after going thru the haybine, the tall orchard grass was tuff for the cows to eat and they wasted too much of it this winter. So I bought the conditioner from a good friend of mine. Ran it after the AC 390 haybine with my WD and it made a huge difference. Hay is soft, not tuff.
Second reason is I really liked the sickle mower/conditioner setup from back in the day. I wanted to mow old school in a 6 acre field that we maintain. I had a blast and 82S mower/ conditioner did a great job. I was warned of possible wrapping on the rolls of the conditioner but I never had a single issue. We still used a Tedder to aid dry time but we only acquired this new Tedder 3 years ago. Before, it was just let it dry, rake it, and then bump it the following day or 2 until it was dry and then bale it. Obviously this is meant for small farms, or hobby farmers as I call myself. Would love to have a discbine but that wouldn’t be cost effective at this point unless we obtained more land. I enjoy old school farming with AC equipment that continues to do the job they were invented to do many years ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mactractor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2020 at 1:48am
Good point there ac fleet.
Them rotary (European style) tedders can bash a lot of leaf off if you run the pto rpm too high or put it through the crop just one too many times.
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