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stroketech 
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 Topic: Series IV D17 Gas Starter Solenoid Problem.
Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 7:50pm |
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Did a clutch in it last weekend. In the process of taking it apart I broke the battery cable stud off of the solenoid. Tractor is all original with the 4 post solenoid. Has ignition key with push button start. Bought an SS851T solenoid. Has 4 posts just like the original.
Put it on, started perfect but wouldn't shut off. Had to pop the coil wire off of the ignition stud. Took it back off to make sure everything looked right. Put it back on and now the starter engages as soon as I hook the battery cable up.
What gives? The old relay worked great up till I broke it. When I look up an actual D17 relay they are all 3 post solenoids.
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TramwayGuy
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Location: Northern NY
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Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 8:08pm |
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Swap the two small wires on the solenoid. Sounds like you are backfeeding the start Post on the solenoid from the ballast resistor. The solenoid will not pull in with reduced voltage from the resistor, but it will hold in once energized.
At least that's what I suspect.
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stroketech
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Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 8:16pm |
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Just tried that. No dice.
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TramwayGuy
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Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 8:34pm |
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Where did you buy the solenoid? I can't find any reference to that part number anywhere.
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Hubert (Ga)engine7
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Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 8:37pm |
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The wire from the push button start switch should go to the "S" terminal on the solenoid, the wire from the ignition switch to the "I" terminal.
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Just an old country boy saved by the grace of God.
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stroketech
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Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 8:42pm |
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The solenoid is a Standard brand Ford solenoid from the 70's. Labeled just like the old solenoid. I put the wires on the new one just how I took them off the old one. I didn't trace them back but I know the wire on the ignition post is spliced into the wire that goes from the resistor to the coil and if I take it off the solenoid the tractor dies immediately.
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stroketech
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Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 8:51pm |
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What I don't get is we've had this tractor for 25 years and it's always been wired exactly how it is with the new solenoid. Guess I'll break out the wiring diagram tmrw. Our 1962 has the 3 stud solenoid on it. Not sure what the difference is.
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MACK
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Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 9:02pm |
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There are two solenoids that look alike but are different. The one you got is for continuous operation. The wire going to resistor is the ground wire for a continuous solenoid.
You need the one that sends current to resistor while it is engaged. MACK
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MACK
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Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 9:09pm |
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PS. If tractor dies when you take wire off at solenoid, you have two problems. The resistor is bad also. MACK
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stroketech
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Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 9:24pm |
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So I need a non continuous solenoid? Should I just spend the money and get one from Agco? I ran the tractor 5 mins before installing the new solenoid by jumping the 2 big studs. It shut off fine with that solenoid so I'd guess the resistor is fine correct?
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stroketech
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Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 9:26pm |
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Mack, is the wire going to the I terminal supposed to be spliced into the wire from the resistor to the coil?
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MACK
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Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 9:56pm |
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Yes, with solenoid engaged it is sending 12 volts to coil for easier starting. When solenoid is released, current comes from key switch to resistor, giving coil some where around 8 volts. MACK
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stroketech
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Posted: 08 Sep 2017 at 12:02pm |
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So I learned that not all 4 post solenoids are created equal. The Allis solenoid needs to ground through the housing. Regular 4 post solenoids from the parts store dont. Called my Allis dealer. I'll just pay $34 for the correct one from Agco.
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DougS
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Posted: 08 Sep 2017 at 12:16pm |
You can buy solenoids from auto parts stores that ground through the housing. We used to get them from Car Quest when I lived in Oregon. I haven't seen a Car Quest store on this side of the Rockies, though.
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stroketech
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Posted: 08 Sep 2017 at 12:43pm |
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After I figured out I needed one like that I called my parts store guy and he could get one for this afternoon for $25. I said I'll just get the Agco one for $34. 5 min drive. Appears to be a lot better solenoid anyway. We'll see what happens.
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stroketech
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Posted: 09 Sep 2017 at 9:01pm |
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Got her fixed. Went to Allis to get a solenoid yesterday. Got out to the farm today and put it on. Guess what? Nothing. Didn't work. Actual Agco solenoid for a Series IV Gas. Solenoid didn't ground through the housing. Just like the parts store solenoid. Called Napa in town. Told them what I needed, guy said he had one in his hands. Drove into town and grabbed it. Tested it when I got back to the shop. I'll be damned, it grounded through the housing just like it's supposed to. Put it on and fired right up, even shut off. Can't believe how hard it is to find the right part. Especially at an Agco dealer. Oh well, I can say I learned a lot about the bass ackwards electrical system on this thing.
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MACK
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Posted: 09 Sep 2017 at 9:30pm |
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There are a lot of parts guys out there today that have no knowledge of the parts, just a screen in front of them. MACK
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Albert
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Posted: 09 Sep 2017 at 10:03pm |
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Agco did change part numbers because they had a bunch that wouldn't work for these applications . I ran it this problem about a year ago and worked with them on and off several days to get it corrected. If you need the new number contact me and I will have to look up at work to get the correct number.
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stroketech
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Posted: 09 Sep 2017 at 10:04pm |
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What really surprised me was I looked it up on the Agco parts site under Series IV before I went in. He looked it up and came up with the same number. I can't find any info that they ever made a Series IV Gas that wasn't case grounded but i'll be damned. It wasn't the right solenoid. Guess if we ever get around to restoring this one to factory i'll have to find a good used solenoid.
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DougS
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Posted: 10 Sep 2017 at 4:51am |
I've heard that a late 1950's to 1961 GM car uses that kind of solenoid. Go to your auto parts store and have them look up the solenoid part number for a 1960 Chevrolet. The small terminals should be labeled "R" for the one to the resistor wire and "S" for the starter wire.
Edited by DougS - 10 Sep 2017 at 4:55am
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Albert
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Posted: 11 Sep 2017 at 8:35pm |
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I found the number today that Agco uses on several Allis tractors . ACP0152310 And now it gets confusing because the 70241265 is still a good AGCO number, but will not work on all applications . We use the 70241265 on Oliver and White applications .
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stroketech
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Posted: 11 Sep 2017 at 8:51pm |
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Thank you Albert!
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Jesse175
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Posted: 03 Jul 2021 at 12:36pm |
I have a series 4 D17 and need to replace the solenoid. So just to confirm, which part number should I use?
ACP0152310 or 70241265 ?
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BrianC
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Posted: 03 Jul 2021 at 1:09pm |
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Ever notice none of this stuff includes a wiring schematic?
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Jesse175
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Posted: 05 Jul 2021 at 5:58am |
I tried it again over the weekend and my brother-in-law was helping and he noticed that the times it is not starting there is sparking at the solenoid. So I am pretty sure I do need to replace the solenoid. Where the cable from the positive battery terminal connect to the solenoid it appears to sometimes spark and short out against the bracket the solenoid connects to. I am going to try to replace the solenoid but am having trouble finding exactly which one to use. Some of the post say different ones. I have the 4 post solenoid and some people who used the Agco part had issues. Some say to use a mid-seventies Ford or Chevy solenoid. Any thoughts?
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DrAllis
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Posted: 05 Jul 2021 at 6:39am |
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You can use a 4 post on all of them. Cannot use a 3 post where a 4 post belongs.
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Jesse175
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Posted: 06 Jul 2021 at 4:49am |
Just to confirm-if I go to an auto parts store and buy a 4 post continuous solenoid it should work?
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DrAllis
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Posted: 06 Jul 2021 at 5:35am |
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A 4 post relay (not solenoid) that grounds internally. It does NOT have to be continuous, only momentary. Take your old one with you for reference.
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