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CrestonM 
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 Topic: School Me on the Big 'Uns
Posted: 11 Sep 2018 at 8:04pm |
No Shameless, not those big 'uns...the Allis 4WD tractors! Specifically the 4W-305. I really like the looks of these tractors and hope to own one someday. I've heard of guys that have them say they like them, but what are the good and bad about these? I know they're rare, with less than 200 built, so finding a good one is probably a challenge in itself. I've also heard some parts are hard to find, and AGCO has stopped providing some of them. I remember a while back there was an issue with a guy's (I think) hydraulic pump drive shaft splines stripping out, only to find that shaft is no longer available. Is that a common issue? Needing parts that are NLA? I've never seen a 4W-305 in Oklahoma, and the local dealer told me they didn't know of maybe 2 in the region back in the '80s, so the salvage yard idea is out of the question.
What are other pros/cons? I've heard the engines are expensive to overhaul, but the final drives are built very rugged, more than other big tractors of the '80s. What other machines share the engine in this tractor?
Edited by CrestonM - 11 Sep 2018 at 8:05pm
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shameless dude
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Posted: 12 Sep 2018 at 12:54am |
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I think dpower has one of them. and i'm pretty sure that any good machine shop could re-produce any shaft needed if they have a pattern. how many of them little ferd disks can you weld together for it to pull? or is it just for pulling out stuck ferd tractors? (poke,poke)
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CrestonM
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Posted: 12 Sep 2018 at 8:45am |
 shameless dude wrote:
I think dpower has one of them. and i'm pretty sure that any good machine shop could re-produce any shaft needed if they have a pattern. how many of them little ferd disks can you weld together for it to pull? or is it just for pulling out stuck ferd tractors? (poke,poke) |
Well, I was hoping with this big of a tractor I could pull out 2 stuck Fords; the one that got stuck first, then the one I got to pull that one out. Lol
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CAL(KS)
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Posted: 12 Sep 2018 at 9:12am |
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a lot more 8550's around and basically the same tractor but for a few changes and cab/sheetmetal.
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 12 Sep 2018 at 9:28am |
Here's an older posting where 427435 (Mark Sickman), a past AC tractor engineer shares his insights about the 4W305. Mark passed away Sept 2016. He is missed on here, but I'm glad to find his posts to reflect. http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/4w305_topic41389.html
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LB0442
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Posted: 12 Sep 2018 at 4:47pm |
Here is an interesting page I ran across in my books a while ago. It lists a few of the differences from the 4W-220/305 and the 7580/8550.
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Amos
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Posted: 12 Sep 2018 at 5:59pm |
I have never driven an 8550, so keep that in mind when you interpret my opinion on the 305.
It has a wonderful cab to see out of, much better than a 7060 or a 7010 (only two 70 series I ever drove). The 305 will pull like a cat by the tail! The engine is a little lazy at lower rpm and if she starts to lug down below 2100 rpm you better be out of the tough spot or have another gear you can get into real quick. The engine likes warm weather, below 30 degrees you want to plug in the block heater, it warms the engine very quickly. The engine to my knowledge in the 305 configuration was only used in it and the 8550. The same block with a longer stroked crank shaft was used in the construction equipment. If you are looking for parts you better hope AGCO have them in stock or are making them because the common parts are picked off all the ones I have come across in wrecking yards, I understand some one has made some different steering pump transmission pump pumps work but have only read about it online not seen it.
It is a tractor that if you take it to a car show attracts a lot of interest . And I personally do not believe t is fuel efficient for it's power by today's standards.
It is easy to work on, if you have to remove the engine or the cab they are put together to permit it to be done with a few main bolts and it is apart. If you want to take the hood off, have a strong friend to help you, same for going back on!
A real nice tractor to drive...
Edited by Amos - 12 Sep 2018 at 6:01pm
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Ryan Renko
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Posted: 12 Sep 2018 at 8:32pm |
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I was at E.J.Kehrer in Albers, Il. about 6 months ago and they had one parked out back. Although it was 30 ++ years old that tractor looked amazing. I felt like getting out of my truck and bowing down in front of it to pay homage to the beast. Ryan
Edited by Ryan Renko - 12 Sep 2018 at 8:33pm
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CrestonM
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Posted: 12 Sep 2018 at 9:19pm |
That's really neat information guys. Thank you. Ryan, I'd have to do the same if I saw a sharp 4W-305!
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darrel in ND
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Posted: 12 Sep 2018 at 10:22pm |
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here are the production numbers, straight from Norm's book:
4W305=412
4W220=175
8550=973
7580=1,610
Darrel
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CrestonM
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Posted: 12 Sep 2018 at 11:00pm |
Gee, why did the tractor with the worst reputation have to be the one most produced? Wish the demand/economy was better back in the '80s...maybe there would be several thousand 4W's around then...4W-505 would have been nice to produce...something you'd definitely see here on the Great Plains then.
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 12 Sep 2018 at 11:03pm |
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Am I correct in understanding that neither AC 4Wxxx was tested at Nebraska Tractor Test?
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Lonn
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Posted: 13 Sep 2018 at 6:28am |
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There is a nice 4W-305 sitting at the dealership in Mountain Lake MN.
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-- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... -
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GM Guy
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Posted: 14 Sep 2018 at 1:34am |
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The reason the 4Ws were so good was the 2wds they shared components with were so good. :)
Inboard planetaries and class leading hydraulics and cabs, combined with lessons learned from the 8550 and 7580 made the 4Ws an awesome rig.
We have two 7580s and a 4W305, the 4W is a fixer upper, saved it from a feedlot.
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Gleaner: the properly engineered and built combine.
If you need parts for your Gleaner, we are parting out A's through L2's, so we may be able to help.
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iowaman
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Posted: 14 Sep 2018 at 7:06am |
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lets not forget about the 440
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You only live once. But if you live right once is enough.
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chaskaduo
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Posted: 14 Sep 2018 at 9:11am |
Creston here's the link for the one Lonn mentioned, as of 9am http://m.midwayfarmeq.com/List/Tractor/ForSale/27303365 Man what a beast 10.5 - 11 tons. You wouldn't be able to drive it cause they'll want an arm and a leg just to ship it. 
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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CrestonM
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Posted: 14 Sep 2018 at 9:30am |
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That's a great looking tractor!
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CrestonM
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Posted: 14 Sep 2018 at 7:49pm |
I have another question now...I don't know really know anything about these 4W-305s, so what size tillage implements will they pull, and how fast do you usually pull them? Specifically a field cultivator or disc. This is without just scraping the surface, but also not pulling the guts out of it. Just a nice middle point, like post-harvest tillage.
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darrel in ND
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Posted: 14 Sep 2018 at 8:03pm |
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I can tell you what my 8550 does, and a 4W305 should be similar. It pulls a 40 anhydrous applicator at about 5.5 MPH, with a 1000 gallon nurse tank behind it. The openers are very thin, so they don't pull that hard. I think the shanks/openers are on 15 inch spacing on it. The air seeder that the 8550 pulls is a 28 footer, with 28 openers that pull pretty hard, as they have an eagle beak that goes in about 5 inches deep for anhydrous, with wings on them for a paired row of seed, at about inch to inch and half deep, depending on what crop is going in. Then there is a 200 bushel seed/fertilizer cart behind it, and a 1000 gallon anhydrous tank behind that. When everything is full, it knows it has something back there! We pull that at about 5.5 also. It'll take it up any hill we have though. Speed works out good, as PD is in high most of the time, so we have the option to downshift that on hills. That's nice. Them are the only two things we use the 8550 for. HTH. Darrel
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CrestonM
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Posted: 14 Sep 2018 at 8:09pm |
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Thanks, Darrel, that does help!
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Steve Bright
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Posted: 14 Sep 2018 at 8:15pm |
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We pull a 30 ft Krause tool with ours, at 7.50 to 8 MPH
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CrestonM
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Posted: 14 Sep 2018 at 8:20pm |
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What type of implement is that, Steve?
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darrel in ND
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Posted: 15 Sep 2018 at 12:06pm |
CrestonM wrote:
What type of implement is that, Steve? |
I guess that when I was growing up (still am, I guess) and a little beyond, what I always referred to as a "tool bar" is actually a chisel plow or field cultivator. I assume that is what Steve is referring to as well. To add to this thread, what we are calling the "big-uns", are actually pretty small horses in this day and age. People are now running 6 to 7 hundred horse quad tracks and pulling 60 foot air seeders with 1,000 bushel seed/fertilizer carts and have double 1,450 gallon anhydrous tank set ups behind that. I think that I still have more fun with my 8550, though. LOL! There are options alone on some of the new air seeders that cost more than I have into my whole seeding parade. I have to throw in there to, that I have a caseIH/trimble auto steer in my 8550, which works awesome for what I have tied up in it money wise. But I have to wonder if the engineers that developed the 8550 35 to 40 years ago ever dreamt that some day that tractor would be steering itself down the field. Darrel
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chaskaduo
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Posted: 15 Sep 2018 at 12:49pm |
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Darrel you must have some kinda operation going. I'm just a putz with a small garden at a 40 acre cabin and not a farmer. My little B wouldn't even equal a cylinder let alone a tread track on any of these Beasts. But I still love her. Heck I probably wouldn't have enough room to turn one of these around on my property.
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 15 Sep 2018 at 1:56pm |
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Remember, the bigger the big uns are, the bigger the problems! This applies to tractors too lol!
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Daehler
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Posted: 15 Sep 2018 at 5:27pm |
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Allis had a 61ft 1400 Chiselvator to put behind a 8550 or 4w-305. If AC had stayed going for 2 more years somethings that have been put on the market in the last 10 to 15 would have been done in the late 80s.
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8070FWA,7080 BlackBelly, 7045,2 200s,D19,D17,G, WD,45,UC,7 AC mowers and lots more!
"IT TAKES 3 JD's TO OUT DO AN ALLIS, 2 TO MATCH IT IN THE FIELD AND 1 FOR PARTS!"
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Mike Kroupa
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Posted: 15 Sep 2018 at 7:20pm |
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I echo what you are saying Ed! Nice tractors in their day, but when something goes wrong deep inside be prepared for a lot of work ahead. That and the fact that many parts, gears, etc. are unique to each different model makes accessing repairs nearly impossible. I did a lot of farming with my 8550 back in the day and I'm glad I still have my PTA 280 STEIGER., Mike
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bigal121892
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Posted: 15 Sep 2018 at 8:35pm |
Mike Kroupa wrote:
I echo what you are saying Ed! Nice tractors in their day, but when something goes wrong deep inside be prepared for a lot of work ahead. That and the fact that many parts, gears, etc. are unique to each different model makes accessing repairs nearly impossible. I did a lot of farming with my 8550 back in the day and I'm glad I still have my PTA 280 STEIGER., Mike |
I would agree, if you want to own one for the sake of owning one, go for it. But, if you are going to make your living with it, I would try and find a good old Steiger, more available, and more parts. Now before I get shot  , if you already have one that's a different story.
Edited by bigal121892 - 15 Sep 2018 at 8:36pm
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CrestonM
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Posted: 15 Sep 2018 at 9:17pm |
I agree with what you said about them being "big", Darrel. The smallest articulated tractors I've seen in use down here are roughly the same size as a 4W-305. A lot of guys run Deeres in the 400-500 hp range, if they're serious farmers. If someday I were to have a nice 4W-305, it wouldn't be my sole tillage tractor, but I'd definitely find some things for it to do.
Mike, that's the main reason I started this thread, to see testimonies as to how these tractors have held up in the long run, as far as all the internal workings. Didn't know if there were common issues that happed at xxxx hours or not.
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soybreedingboy77
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Posted: 15 Sep 2018 at 11:24pm |
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DT Allis, was the original thought on the 4W-305 a platform that could go up to possibly 400 horse? I know that the big motor in that tractor was sleaved to lower horsepower. I thought I read somewhere that that block put out like 700 hp in a generator or something.
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