Rotor loss in R52

Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic

  Im sure someone can help me here... This isn't a new to me machine, I have had it for several years, this has always been a problem. 
 Shelling 200 to 225 bushel corn, with a 6 row head, 3 to 3.5 mph and rotor loss is pretty bad. If I slow down it gets worse, If I speed up it gets worse. Initial concave setting of 10, have been up to 12, down to 8. Rotor speed initially on 350, the slower it goes the better. running on 220. Separator grate set mid, and the rotor is level, and Zeroed.
  The rotor has been modified, pretty much like it shows on gleaner site. I put in 2 reverse bars trying to get corn out of shuck, it helped but didn't fix. Since EVERYONE has took them out, I hate to add more...every other separator rasp is out with disrupters in their place.

	This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity.
	The Forum	Parts and Services	Unofficial Allis Store	Tractor Shows	Serial Numbers	History

Author	Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic
cotncrzy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 07 Oct 2009 Location: TENNESSEE Points: 599	Post Options Post Reply Quote cotncrzy Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Rotor loss in R52 Posted: 05 Sep 2017 at 7:48am
	Im sure someone can help me here... This isn't a new to me machine, I have had it for several years, this has always been a problem. Shelling 200 to 225 bushel corn, with a 6 row head, 3 to 3.5 mph and rotor loss is pretty bad. If I slow down it gets worse, If I speed up it gets worse. Initial concave setting of 10, have been up to 12, down to 8. Rotor speed initially on 350, the slower it goes the better. running on 220. Separator grate set mid, and the rotor is level, and Zeroed. The rotor has been modified, pretty much like it shows on gleaner site. I put in 2 reverse bars trying to get corn out of shuck, it helped but didn't fix. Since EVERYONE has took them out, I hate to add more...every other separator rasp is out with disrupters in their place.
	C, WD45,WD puller, 185, 200, 7060 Red Belly, 7060 Black Belly,8010, and a R52 Gleaner, AND PROUD OF THEM!

Sponsored Links

DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21490	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05 Sep 2017 at 8:03am
	Perfect example of "re-designing" something that didn't work all that bad to begin with !! All my 70 inch rotors are set-up like this. #1. Two reverse bars on the discharge end 180 degrees from each other. #2. One reverse bar in the center section of the rotor 90 degrees from the two on the end. #3. One more reverse bar on the gearbox end 90 degrees from the one in the center. #4. I pull every other wire from the rear half of the main concave. #5. I pull every other wire from the separator grate. #6. Rotor speed in corn at 300 or a little less. #7. Standard helical bar configuration except for adding a short one just over the rear chain inlet to help move things over to the left.

Amos Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Ontario Points: 1318	Post Options Post Reply Quote Amos Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05 Sep 2017 at 4:37pm
	That is an interesting arrangement, Dr. I have had my R52 since 1995. I could never get any capacity out of it with the full set of bars in there. I have fought the same issues as cotncrzy, and finally hit on the solution after many years of fighting it. This issue is still the biggest loss from the machine unfortunately but the trick to eliminating it as much as possible is to set your corn head to take in the least amount of trash as possible. When the conditions are a little bit tough, like the dew has just fallen or the weather is overcast and a light drizzle the little machine will shine like no other out there. I have a 830 hugger run 3.5 mph and have been in corn that averaged 248bu/acre over 140 acres. Only problem then is you run out of horsepower and you need a good buggy driver to keep up. I have a high wire thrasher concave on both top and bottom, used to have the every other wire set up but it wore out and went to high wire, a lot less plugging of the concaves I found. Every other wire out of the seperator concave. I have a pre thrashing hump on my concave door as well and I modified the feeder house transition to the rear feed chain, each of which made a difference to the seperator loss. Cylinder rpm is usually in the 230 to 270 range, any higher there will be seperation loss I hve found I have had one variety of corn that no matter what I did I ended up with some loss, it looked very bad to me but when I checked it according to the little gleaner set up book it worked out to 1.2 bu/acre loss. I still thought it looked awful but because the book said it was ok (lol) I just kept going...and I didn't plant that variety again. It makes a huge difference to the sample if you can keep the machine full, both the lack of loss and the cleanliness in the grain bin. One other thing I might add as well the Deutz engine is a surprise for hanging together and very fuel efficient. I have wished for a cummins but every one I talk to use more fuel. Edited by Amos - 05 Sep 2017 at 4:41pm

tbran Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Paris Tn Points: 3497	Post Options Post Reply Quote tbran Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05 Sep 2017 at 9:11pm
	first of all, do a loss check PER THE BOOK. Where is the loss coming from and what is it exactly. A 1 % loss is better than 99% of the combines running. We have worked on units to limit loss that increased fuel use above the value of the loss. As stated make sure the wires in the grates are 1" or 3/4" = not the 1/2" spacing wheat units use. Especially on the threshing grate. Make sure the engine rpm is at specified high idle as a lower speed reduces fan volume. The grate setting should be so as to put out mostly whole cobs with a 'candy cane' stripe around them. We have had to add extra reverse bars in corn to limit loss in these high yields. The elimination of reverse bars is for green stem soybeans mostly. Check and post back , I would venture to guest you are not terribly off on the loss percentage. If it is rotor loss, look on the bright side - the spreader spreads it out and the volunteer corn looks uniform, not 5' ribbons of shame the others leave... :-)
	When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..

wayneIA Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 17 Oct 2009 Location: Waverly, IA Points: 268	Post Options Post Reply Quote wayneIA Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05 Sep 2017 at 9:23pm
	My local dealer when I purchased my R50 from them said he wanted to make it work the way I would like it. They started with a standard rotor and helical arrangement, then removed every other row of bars on the rotor leaving the rows with the reverse bars on them. Next they pulled every other wire out of the concave. By doing this he told me it allows the crop material to fluff and release trapped kernels and allow more grain to fall through the concave. They also told me by taking the rotor bars out that I would end up running the rotor faster to thresh it correctly (in 20-24% corn I run a lot of times around 400-500 rpm). He instructed me on setting the machine to set the concave an 1/8" smaller than what the cob measures in diameter (if you measure the cob at 1" set the concave at 7/8") this will "squeeze" the cob but not break it. I'm not sure on the number system for the newer series on how that converts to actual measurement, but you can measure the rotor clearance and get an idea where you're at. Then he told me the number one thing to remember is that when setting the rotor rpm is that: too fast cracks and too slow explodes. Meaning that if you have cracked corn in the tank the rotor is running too fast, and if the cobs behind the machine look like they "exploded" and aren't simply broken by the chopper then your rotor rpm is too low. To find the correct rotor rpm he said to start out slow enough you aren't cracking, then keep speeding the rotor up until you get cracked grain. Once you start to get cracked grain then slow the rotor down 50 rpm and it is set. I know everyone has their way of configuring the combine to work best, but this is what works for me. I end up running out of elevator capacity long before horsepower. I'll also second Amos's opinion on the Deutz, was concerned about it at first being air cooled, but wouldn't hesitate again on one.

DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21490	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 Sep 2017 at 7:24am
	I have one Customer with the "four-row" rotor configuration and he too runs a total of four reverse bars for corn/soybeans to keep cylinder losses acceptable. This was a machine he bought used from another dealership in NW Iowa and that's how they do it.....four rows and that's all. They had two reverse bars on the discharge end and after a couple seasons we finally added in the other two because losses were just too much some times in corn. Never made any rotor changes since then. I might add, I have never once had a lack of HP complaint in corn/soybeans. Cleaning shoe/elevator capacity is the limit in corn and throat capacity is the limit in soybeans. HP has never been an issue even back to the R-50's.

Amos Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Ontario Points: 1318	Post Options Post Reply Quote Amos Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 Oct 2017 at 7:54pm
	I likely have a lame engine in mine, would not surprise me. One thing I have found, and it slipped my mind when I first replied, I have had the interrupters, or better described as the discharge paddle gussets, wear down over time and when I built them back up found an improvement in separation, just a thought you might look at them. I use the same hard surface wire to build them up as I use on the spirals of the corn head, also tungsten carbide works well. Dr has me thinking I may throw a set of reverse bars in to try this fall for a hundred acres to see if they do make a difference. It has been several years since I tried some changes...

tbran Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Paris Tn Points: 3497	Post Options Post Reply Quote tbran Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 Oct 2017 at 9:04pm
	did you ever do a real loss check?
	When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..