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littlemarv 
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Joined: 10 Jun 2013
Location: Wisconsin
Points: 1834
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 Topic: Rebuilding a 6V starter to 12V
Posted: 14 Oct 2022 at 4:53pm |
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Converted two WDs to 12 volt. They both have mags, so all I did was install 12 volt batteries and alternators. Do you need to rebuild the starter to 12 volt? I have heard horror stories about broken nose cones and ring gears and what not. I sent Steve at B&B a message to see what he charges for doing it, but is it really necessary? These aren't daily drivers, mostly used sporadically on weekends.
Thanks in advance.
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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Steve in NJ
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Andover, NJ
Points: 12007
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Posted: 14 Oct 2022 at 8:19pm |
Got your message Ryan. You got mail! LOL! Steve@B&B
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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MACK
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Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Points: 7664
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Posted: 14 Oct 2022 at 8:32pm |
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A 6V starter will last a long time, but with a mag it will spin it fast enough to bypass Im pulse on mag. Won't start as good.
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steve(ill)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 88183
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Posted: 14 Oct 2022 at 8:33pm |
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i have 4 model B tractors with mags and converted to 12v.. No problems with starters or ring gears... I did replace 2 of the ring gears when i bought the tractors as they were worn out after 60 years .............. i think that is a lot of the problems... prior wear.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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DSeries4
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Points: 7511
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Posted: 14 Oct 2022 at 8:37pm |
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My 58 D14 got switched to 12 volts in the mid 80s. The starter was left as 6 volt. It has never had a broken nose cone or any other catastrophic failure in that time. It was still being used actively into the early 2000s, since then it has been enjoying retirement - but never fails to start!
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '63 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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Les Kerf
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Joined: 08 May 2020
Location: Idaho
Points: 1343
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Posted: 15 Oct 2022 at 7:48am |
I have owned two Model C's converted to 12 volts, the first one slammed the starter in so violently that it broke three starter drive springs before chewing up the ring gear; I then converted it back to 6 volts using a 6 volt, one-wire alternator. It also spun the engine fast enough on 12 volts to dis-engage the impulse. The Model C I currently own did not slam the starter nearly as hard but I later installed a 12 volt 'upgrade' kit which I purchased from ebay; I couldn't tell any difference in performance so I don't really know what I got for my money, nor do I really know what I previously had. The stock WD starter is essentially the same as a Model C starter, but the WD starter uses a significantly smaller pinion gear; this, plus the fact that it is spinning a larger engine, means that the 12 volt cranking speed will never be as fast as what some have seen in a Model C, therefore it is less likely to dis-engage the magneto impulse. In the interest of science and the betterment of mankind, please do have Steve rebuild one to 12 volts and then report back to us with a full comparison of amperage draw, etc. 
Edited by Les Kerf - 15 Oct 2022 at 7:51am
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littlemarv
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Joined: 10 Jun 2013
Location: Wisconsin
Points: 1834
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Posted: 15 Oct 2022 at 8:21am |
https://youtu.be/diV6-MeGcaoI pulled this WD out of the weeds, put a headgasket in it (only because I had to extract all the broken manifold studs) cleaned the carb, and it is the best starting tractor I own. I don't think it slams in violently, or spins too fast. Granted the battery was down a touch.
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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wjohn
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Joined: 19 Jan 2010
Location: KS
Points: 2245
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Posted: 15 Oct 2022 at 1:18pm |
I asked about a related topic a while back:
https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/6v-vs-12v-starter-windings_topic183054.html?KW=12V
Might be some useful info in there for you. I ended up putting my starter back together as-is (presumably 6V... nobody seems to know how to tell 6V vs. 12V field coils apart). I have yet to finish rebuilding the engine though.
Edited by wjohn - 15 Oct 2022 at 1:18pm
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Gary Burnett
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Virginia
Points: 3093
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Posted: 16 Oct 2022 at 6:27am |
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Have cranked 6V starters for years on AC,Oliver and other tractors with 12V never had a problem related to it.
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allischalmerguy
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Deep River, IA
Points: 2893
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Posted: 25 Oct 2022 at 8:37pm |
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Marv.
That is a nice unit you have there! Sounds real good!
Way to go.
Pastor Mike
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It is great being a disciple of Jesus! 1950 WD, 1957 D17...retired in Iowa,
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SteveM C/IL
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Shelbyville IL
Points: 8648
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Posted: 26 Oct 2022 at 7:51am |
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My 45 has been 12 on 6 for 40 yrs. Was my main tractor for years. Figured after many years the brushes would be eat up on 12V.....nope. M&W overhaul made it difficult to start hot on 6V.
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HoughMade
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Joined: 22 Sep 2017
Location: Valparaiso, IN
Points: 709
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Posted: 26 Oct 2022 at 9:26am |
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If I guy were worried about 12v adversely affecting the 6v starter, seems to me that a solution would be to have the rest of the ignition system in tip-top shape so the engines lights off immediately and doesn't need to be cranked much.
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1951 B
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jvin248
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Joined: 17 Jan 2022
Location: Detroit
Points: 467
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Posted: 26 Oct 2022 at 10:38am |
 HoughMade wrote:
If a guy were worried about 12v adversely affecting the 6v starter, seems to me that a solution would be to have the rest of the ignition system in tip-top shape so the engines lights off immediately and doesn't need to be cranked much. |
That's the solution. Don't run the starter all day.
I have the family heirloom 1955 Ferguson TO35 that was 6v and I remember my father always fiddling with the batteries, charging, and starting. There was a while he parked it on a little hill to run it down and start it up. The tractor must have a million hours on it as it was in constant use. I rebuilt the trans and replaced most of the electrical system (keeping at 6v) but I told the tractor if it caused me to futz around like my father did I'd switch it over to 12v. About six months after getting it back working I had a WD and AC brush hog delivered here and the Ferguson needed to help unload. It stalled and wouldn't start. So it got converted to 12v and it starts like a completely different tractor now. None of that will she/won't she turn over. Same 6v starter that I actually bought new to avoid problems after rebuild when I had it at 6v.
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Phil48ACWC
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Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Location: Vermont
Points: 308
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Posted: 27 Oct 2022 at 6:15am |
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I converted my '48 WC with WD45 innards to 12V with 6V starter 24 years ago. Used Delco Remy 10SI alternator with built in solid state regulator. I replaced the big spring starter drive with the modern replacement. No regrets. Try getting 6V stuff at a reasonable price today. Forget it! 6V died before Elvis.
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DaveKamp
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Location: LeClaire, Ia
Points: 6081
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Posted: 28 Oct 2022 at 9:54pm |
If you look through Delco-Remy parts listings, you'll frequently find that the same parts are used in several voltage ranges. In the case of my 338ci Hercules inline six, it uses the same starter for 6,8,12, and 24v starting.
Regardless of wether it's series or shunt wound, the DC electric starter is self-limiting in it's current flow, and the faster it runs, the more it 'limits' itself... and that proportion is equally as impactive regardless of applied voltage. At a slower speed, it will pass more current, and at a higher speed, it will pass less. Most of the time, if a starter is failing from some circumstance, it is wear and tear, not the starting voltage.
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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