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eodcoduto 
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 Topic: Rebaling question
Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 9:06pm |
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I am looking to rebale some 4x5 round bales into either squares or small rounds from a roto baler and I'd like to know if anyone on here could recommend a baler that I could power with my 32hp Kubota (it came with the farm). Any help is appreciated and I may be in the market for a baler if I find a good one here in North Alabama.
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matador
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Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 9:10pm |
What model of Kubota? You don't need a lot of power to run a baler- something like a New Holland 273 is a common choice and a really good light duty baler. The problem with some compact tractors is they just aren't built heavy enough to handle the vibrations and jerking from the baler.
HP isn't everything, it's how the machine is built. You could run a baler with a WD45 all day, but on a brand new compact tractor, I wouldn't try it
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eodcoduto
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Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 9:30pm |
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Its a 2010 3240, my intent is to stay stationary right next to the barn so that I could move the bales as little as possible. Its a great tractor but you are right, they aren't build like a field tractor.
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matador
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Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 9:42pm |
I'd read this thread: They talk about newer small tractors a lot: https://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=133224&DisplayType=nested
Edited by matador - 12 Nov 2020 at 9:43pm
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eodcoduto
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Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 10:00pm |
I've seen some of those, as well as people using a Honda or similar engine which makes a ton of sense to me as well.
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shameless dude
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 12:31am |
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dad had an IH baler with a wisconsin engine on it back in the 60's, usually folks around here that re-bale, are just baling stems by the time the bale is made. you lose alot of the leaves this way. bought some re-baled alfalfa several times, the goats wouldn't even eat it! alot of those bales were returned for a refund. time waster for the buyers as you can't tell by looking at a bale if it's been re-baled until you cut the strings/wire. local feed and grain co quit buying the hay from a place that re-baled their alfalfa, because of that reason. buys from local producers now that start off with the small square bales.
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Gary Burnett
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 5:32am |
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My dad baled hay with a Roto Baler pulled by a B AC for years on our hills and I have baled with a JD 24T behind a CA AC,so I would think your tractor would handle either baler sitting and being fed hay. BTW I mow all my hay with a 31 HP Yanmar.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 5:36am |
OK, I have a question.... How many small squares can you get out of a 4x5 round and how long would it take ? hmm, how many squares needed 5-50-500 ??
Just wondering if it'd be cheaper/better ? to sell the 4x5s and buy small squares ?? To me, it sounds like a lot of work to turn the 'rounds' into 'squares' especially if you lose 2-3 'squares' in the process.
just curious, waitin for Mr. Sun to show up...
Jay
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eodcoduto
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 6:22am |
I was ready for this question so here is the reason. I just retired from the Marine Corps and we bought my father-in-law's farm. It has 16 head of A2/A2 Dexters on it and we are going to be direct marketing beef and raw milk. I bought 30 4x5's with heavy clover in August which should last us for the way I feed hay, rolling out a chunk each day for them on the ground since we move the cows every day. With our 23 acre place that is cut into quarters by a creek, the round bales just don't work with what I am wanting to do, dropping it, rolling it and picking it back up isn't efficient.
In theory we would get 16 50lb squares or Roto bales from an 800lb 4x5, so in a perfect world 480 squares, in the real world around 400-430. I will be rebaling on a cement spot so leaf loss will be collected and bagged and we can divy that out with each daily move.
I want to keep equipment to a minimum, which goes against the way I was raised, but I don't have the room or the cash to buy depreciating machinery that will sit most of the year. We buy hay because for us it is cheaper than to do it ourselves. I could rent another farmer and his baler to do this which is the most economical way, but I wanted to see what you guys said about which model of baler so that if I see one pop up I can check it out.
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darrel in ND
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 6:32am |
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I've rolled out a few big round bales, and roto baled em up. Worked all right. Wasn't alfalfa hay, so leaf loss wasn't an issue. Darrel
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Tbone95
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 7:02am |
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I would certainly look for a New Holland 273. Plentiful, can still get parts,and nice little baler. We have had one since 1975, 100's of 1000's of bales through it and never misses a beat.
Edited by Tbone95 - 13 Nov 2020 at 7:02am
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PaulB
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 7:24am |
There is a place down the road the processes big rounds into small squares for market hay. They use big round to be able to get the hay made fast and moved to inside storage. they have a small square mounted in the building by the loading dock and there is an unrolling platform at the feeder for small square baler. The small squares get loaded into van trailer right out of the baler. Everything there is run by electricity. Back to your original question: I would think that re-baling your large rounds into the small Roto-bales would be perfect for what you are doing. That would have the same quality of the big bales in a small package. With a square baler, they hay gets cut with every plunger stroke and that leaves a lot of waste in the fields. When I was feeding livestock and using Roto-Bales the animals would clean things up like a vacuum cleaner. They were wasting a lot of hay with small squares.
Edited by PaulB - 13 Nov 2020 at 7:25am
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
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john(MI)
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 10:23am |
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Isn't it efficient to get round bale feeders and just put your bales in those rather than all of the expense and troubles with changing them into squares?
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D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446
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DMiller
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 2:15pm |
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What I have learned from two renters is 1/4-1/3 of big rounds does not get eaten, gets tramped into manure surreounding bale feeder where center of mass as they get down to it sits and rots.
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eodcoduto
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 2:23pm |
I am feeding rolled out on the ground so that any hay they don't eat gets trampled into the ground and helps to feed the soil. I don't use bale rings because that concentrates all the animals in one spot, so I get high manure in that spot and a pugged up area that won't grow grass the next year. By unrolling or throwing out squares I can spread out my fertilizer and not make mud when it rains.
There is an Allis 443 close by so I might check it out, but I think a roto baler would be easier for my setup. And it is cooler.
Edited by eodcoduto - 13 Nov 2020 at 2:48pm
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victoryallis
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 5:22pm |
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Sounds like a perfect way to make work out of work. When I had only a few cows I’d set a bale on edge and peel off enough for each days feeding with a fork.
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DiyDave
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 5:51pm |
Far be it from me to throw salt into an open wound  , I agree with what others have said about rebaling leaf loss, and that the 30 HP kubota doesn't quite have the arse, to pull a small baler. Its the torque curve of the motor, and the light weight of the tractor that gives me some concern.
I'd agree that a 273 NH baler is a good older smaller baler. But I'd look for a D-14/15 Allis to pull it, too! Maybe a compromise, get the baler, if the Kubota won't pull it, then pick up a D-14/15/17, whatever you can find, to pull it...
Edited by DiyDave - 13 Nov 2020 at 5:52pm
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TMiller/NC
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 6:17pm |
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I don't have any advice about baling hay as my 1 acre doesn't require bailing. BUT I will give you a HUGE, THANK YOU for your service to the greatest country on earth. Tim
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eodcoduto
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 6:27pm |
I agree it is more work, but that's why its Management Intensive Grazing! The farm has been free grazed for decades and the pastures are in horrible shape, it will take a few years but we will have them looking good just using hay and mob grazing. Since we took over in mid August we are playing catch up going into the winter, and moving them each day is the main goal. Unwrapping a chunk works up by the barn but its a lot of vehicle traffic carrying that out to each new paddock.
It looks like the local square baler is a 443 so I might check it out next week. The baler won't be pulled it will be stationary getting bales fed into it.
Edited by eodcoduto - 13 Nov 2020 at 6:28pm
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Gary Burnett
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Posted: 14 Nov 2020 at 5:53am |
Feeding out in the field is a good idea and good way to improve pasture,plus cows aren't belly deep in mud and getting hung up in hay rings.No manure to haul in the Spring either. I've done it for years really improved my pastures.As far a baling with a low HP tractor just don't feed much hay into the baler at a time.Those old Wisconsin engines that used to be used to run balers were pretty low HP probably around 20.
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victoryallis
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Posted: 14 Nov 2020 at 6:16am |
 Gary Burnett wrote:
As far a baling with a low HP tractor just don't feed much hay into the baler at a time.Those old Wisconsin engines that used to be used to run balers were pretty low HP probably around 20.
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Your forgetting one thing you need some weight to keep the tractor from getting pushed around. That plunger going back and forth has some energy. I’ve baled with a D12 but much prefer the D17. Honestly 6080 is my preference.
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Tbone95
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Posted: 14 Nov 2020 at 7:59am |
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I use a feeder wagon rather than a ring. I feed corn silage and a round on top. I move ir every day, nowhere near the waste of rolling it on the ground.
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Gary Burnett
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Posted: 14 Nov 2020 at 9:43am |
victoryallis wrote:
Gary Burnett wrote:
As far a baling with a low HP tractor just don't feed much hay into the baler at a time.Those old Wisconsin engines that used to be used to run balers were pretty low HP probably around 20.
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Your forgetting one thing you need some weight to keep the tractor from getting pushed around. That plunger going back and forth has some energy. I’ve baled with a D12 but much prefer the D17. Honestly 6080 is my preference. |
Probably but he doesn't have all those options and setting still the tractor isn't going to get pushed much anyway.If he uses typical farmernomics and goes and buys an expensive tractor just to bale with he'll turn a profitable enterprise into a money pit.
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Ray54
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Posted: 14 Nov 2020 at 1:04pm |
I am learning round bale feeding, so don't kick me to hard for asking dumb questions.
Has anyone built a stand (cradle, something to hold a round bale so it spins like a bale bed on a truck) so you can have wagon (what ever to haul the loose hay) under it. You would unroll what ever amount into wagon. No need to pound it to chaff like a baler does to get a few 100 lbs off the round.
Well time for me to take a round up top of the hill and sent it off to unroll so all 60 get there share. A real pain to get in the bunch of cows and start over when it doesn't unroll.
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eodcoduto
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Posted: 15 Nov 2020 at 6:25pm |
Ray54 wrote:
I am learning round bale feeding, so don't kick me to hard for asking dumb questions.
Has anyone built a stand (cradle, something to hold a round bale so it spins like a bale bed on a truck) so you can have wagon (what ever to haul the loose hay) under it. You would unroll what ever amount into wagon. No need to pound it to chaff like a baler does to get a few 100 lbs off the round.
Well time for me to take a round up top of the hill and sent it off to unroll so all 60 get there share. A real pain to get in the bunch of cows and start over when it doesn't unroll. |
Yes there is! I need to build one, that would also be an alternative to rebaling, here you go:
For all the worries about wasting hay, my opinion is there is no such thing as hay waste. Anything that isn't eaten goes into the ground which feeds the soil and protects bare spots if you have any. Nature doesn't like bare ground! I also get the benefit of taking all the fertilizer and expensive inputs the hay maker used then cut off his field and sold to me, so all the seed heads and biomass goes into my pasture and out of his.
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