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Rear tire recommendations

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Morpar55 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morpar55 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Rear tire recommendations
    Posted: 30 Nov 2021 at 11:58am
      The time is rapidly approaching to replace the rear tires and wheels on my D17. The tires now are fluid filled and the wheels have a couple of large areas where the rust monster has had it's way with them. Is there anywhere in central Indiana I should look (or avoid) for a new set of tires for this tractor? The current tires are 14.9-28 for a 13" rim width. Not sure if the rims are 13" or 14" width either, but since they need replaced I don't think it really matters. And what is the current thinking regarding filling the tires for weight? The research I have done basically has 3 options; calcium chloride, beet juice, and foam. I know the foam will need to be cut off the rim when the tire eventually needs replaced (I will likely be dead then so not real concerned), but otherwise it sounds like the best choice. No leakage, never goes flat, and adds about the same weight as the other options. Am I missing something here?
     And if I go with foam will I still need to put tubes in the tires, or can not using them help offset the cost of the foam? Is there any reason to not have the front tires filled with foam too other than cost? I have a slow leak in my left front right now, but it isn't bad enough to pull it apart and repair. My Dad replaced the front tires about 25 years ago, and while the tread is still good the sidewalls are showing weather checking from age. Will having them foam filled increase their lifespan, or should I have new tires put on and then fill them?
1959 AC D17 Gas with some updates
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2021 at 12:07pm
Do you know a back surgeon ??   I imagine foam filled tires will ride much rougher than air or air/fluid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2021 at 12:50pm
I only knew the foam filling was to eliminate flats, not to add weight. As Dr. Allis referred, they will be 100% solid, why not just get steel wheels then?  any fluid will make the ride stiffer as fluids do no compress.
  Why do you even need extra weight in the rears? Do you have a loader on the D17? Do you do heavy tillage? If not, there's really no need for having extra weight. Filling the tires with salt water will only lead to the rims rusting again. It is never IF, but WHEN ! Also if there is a "NEED" for extra weight, cast iron won't run down the ditch when you get a flat. 
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Tbone95 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2021 at 1:24pm
The last new tires and fluid we got, about 4 years ago(?) were filled with "corn juice" of some kind instead of beet juice.  We were told it isn't hard on the valve stems like beet juice is.  Though we have had tires filled with beet juice since 2007 with the same valve stems no troubles....so...???  I really don't know the details of what the corn stuff is, just that's what the dealer called it.
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Brian G. NY View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian G.  NY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2021 at 4:24pm
Originally posted by PaulB PaulB wrote:

  any fluid will make the ride stiffer as fluids do no compress.

Properly filled tires are only filled to about three quarters full. There is enough air left in the tire to still give a reasonably "smooth" ride and sustain conformance with the ground surface.
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Red Bank View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Bank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2021 at 5:07pm
I am in NC so it may explain what my tire guy has done to my tires but anyway he has been putting RV antifreeze in them. I don’t think he is adding enough antifreeze to water but like I said I am in NC so it’s not like it gets real cold here in the winter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2021 at 5:57pm
I think you will find, in addition to the rough ride, foam filled tires are probably twice as expensive as the alternatives...Wink

I think they make several grades of foam(hardness), but the problem is finding someone local who has a softer grade of foam may be difficult.  I know around here, there was only 1 shop, and they only had 1 grade of foam...Wink

Also, the foam guys want new tires to fill, they won't touch old tires.(may be a liability issue...)Wink


Edited by DiyDave - 30 Nov 2021 at 6:00pm
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Ed (Ont) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed (Ont) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2021 at 7:29pm
What are you using the tractor for?  I worked in a precast concrete yard 40 years ago. All the concrete delivery trucks that worked in the yard were foam filled. Only reason they did that was because of constant flats due to chunks of rebar, steel cables etc. Then they were driven till the rubber peeled off and foam started to come out in chunks. Maintenance costs were horrendous due to no give in tires. All kinds of broken stuff. I thought it would have been better to spend more on tires but management disagreed. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote victoryallis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2021 at 7:44pm
Put the chloride back in.  Rims only rust if the chloride leaks out. Maintain your tubes and valve stems and it’s no issue.   Uncle has a 7000 that he got conned into pumping the chloride out.  Can’t pull squat with it now even with wheel weights.   Besides fluid filled tires lower your center of gravity making it safer.  
8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ranger43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2021 at 9:19pm
x2  I do not understand why everyone is against calcium chloride. We have 3 one owner tractors from 72-74.... 2 have over 10,000 hours and have never had to patch or replace a rim. On top of that...they were in and out of manure pits for years when we still milked cows. I cannot imagine worse conditions.  Nothing that I have been around behaves as well as calcium chloride as far as low center of gravity and planting the tractor to the ground.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EPALLIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2021 at 9:53pm
I was confronted with this exact same question with my D-17 Series II about 10 years ago.  Here is what I did for best value and results.
Removed the original 14.9X28 Goodyear tires and replaced with Titan 16.9X28.
Removed all the fluid in the rear tires and did not replace.
Installed one set of Allis-Chalmers rear wheel weights.  
Very happy with the results after all these years.
Hope this helps.  Good Luck!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 6:21am
You apparently don't ever pull a 3 or 4 bottom moldboard plow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albatros_3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 7:51am
I won't ever use a tractor with foam filled tires again. A friend picked up a Ford 545 that had foam filled rear tires. We used it to shuttle hay wagons a couple miles and you felt every bump in the field and road and it was awful. Shortly after that I found rims and wheels to swap out. So it's steel weights first followed by windshield washer fluid from now on. I'd consider chloride if there was a shop reasonably close that still did it.  

As for 14.9x28, I just changed out a set on my Ford 3600. The originals were on 13" rims and the tires said 14.9x28 "on 13" rim" and they always looked big, which I liked. The tire shop could only get 12" rims at the time and I got 14.9x28 BKT TR-135 tires and there were noticeably narrower and shorter than the previous set. A little bummed out by that, but it will still pull a hay rake and tedder just fine. So I recommend looking at the dimensions online of the tires you plan to go with to make sure they are what you want. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 8:00am
I propose a challenge to those who say fluid filled tires ride rougher....they don't. Let's take one 14.9 x 28 filled with 12 psi of air and drop it from a height of 10 ft. Will it bounce?? I imagine so. Lets do the same thing with the same 14.9 x 28 with a proper fill of fluid, and that's not up to the rim top, but about 10 and 2 o'clock. Let's drop it 10 ft with the same 12 psi. I guarantee it will not bounce anything like the air only tire. And as far as I'm concerned any D-17 deserves 16.9 x 28 rear tires, not 14.9's and they will work just fine on 13 inch rims.

Edited by DrAllis - 01 Dec 2021 at 8:02am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albatros_3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 8:24am
^^ I second the 16.9x28 recommendation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 9:06am
I would also get 16.9x28's

You never said what you use that tractor for? You may be ok with no fluid, but if you do much work, you will need some kind fluid. Juice or calcium is up to you. Properly maintained, calcium is ok. Most rot comes from leaking valve stems on old tractors that sit in the barn and never get looked at.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 9:20am
Originally posted by victoryallis victoryallis wrote:

Put the chloride back in.  Rims only rust if the chloride leaks out. Maintain your tubes and valve stems and it’s no issue.   Uncle has a 7000 that he got conned into pumping the chloride out.  Can’t pull squat with it now even with wheel weights.   Besides fluid filled tires lower your center of gravity making it safer.  
I realize you have a deeply passionate affinity for chloride, and that's fine.  But your sentence can be worded, "won't rust if the rim guard leaks out."Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HudCo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 9:45am
the only problem that there is with calcium chloride is lack of maintaince . as far as foam fill goes i would only use it in something that just moves around in a yard  i cant imagine how bad they would be for feild work i would think traction would be real bad
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morpar55 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 10:01am
     Thanks for all of the comments. I wondered if the foam filled tires would make the ride quality horrible or not, and it sounds like it will. Scratch that off the list! I am still in the process of adding a newer loader to the front of this old girl, so there will be some weight needed in the rear to help compensate for when I get stupid and try to pick up something too big! For the most part my tractor gets used occasionally for work around the property. Mostly moving stuff around with the loader but I have a 3 bottom plow I have never even put on, an old mower I haven't used for about 7 years, an auger, and the grader blade. I will see what the local shops use for filling tires and go from there. Now to convince the wife I need more money for tires and wheels....
1959 AC D17 Gas with some updates
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 10:10am
Originally posted by HudCo HudCo wrote:

the only problem that there is with calcium chloride is lack of maintaince . as far as foam fill goes i would only use it in something that just moves around in a yard  i cant imagine how bad they would be for feild work i would think traction would be real bad
Yeah yeah, hear that all the time.  And yeah, I can't say I'm always on schedule replacing valve stems just for the fun of it.  

Except, that ISN'T the only problem.  We had a tractor years ago, too uninvolved at the time to remember all the details, but the CC rusted the rim out from the inside out, and did not leak down in pressure.  How the heck were we supposed to know there was that issue going on before it was too late?  

People can do what they want, I don't care.  Use chloride, use sulfuric acid if you want, I really don't care.  But for me, it's cheap insurance to put something in there that won't eat out your rim if something happens, then you're dealing with not only the flat but the downtime of getting a rim etc.  So, that's what I do, I use a noncorrosive in them.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 10:21am
If the original (probably not well maintained) rims, with calcium chloride filled tires lasted 50+ years, I would think in another 50 years, neither we, nor the tractor would be very useful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 10:48am
You had two rims on the same tractor that did that??   I'll bet it was one rim and sometime in the past the tractor had a flat tire that soaked the inside of the tube and rim and the tire man patched it in the field and things never got washed off clean, leaving a residue on the inside.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan Hauter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 11:07am
You have an interesting question. Yesterday I helped a friend & the owner of the local tire shop change a rear tire on a 1929 International tractor in the back corner of my friend's shed. Personally, I wouldn't put anything in my tires other than air. Calcium chloride is a horrible, corrosive liquid so avoid it at any cost. If you need extra weight use wheel weights. My dad had calcium chloride in the front & rear tires of our 2 WD's. The fluid in the front tires just made the tractors harder to steer.  Didn't accomplish anything. Calcium chloride destroys rims. Stay with air.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 11:24am
Some have no concept of how many cast iron weights it takes to replace 1,000 lbs of calcium chloride fluid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ACinSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 11:40am
Down south I think water is mostly used for tire ballast . I know that's what my uncle used and that's what was and still is in D 15 tires . We just don't get too much weather below freezing . Thanks !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 11:43am
Originally posted by DrAllis DrAllis wrote:

You had two rims on the same tractor that did that??   I'll bet it was one rim and sometime in the past the tractor had a flat tire that soaked the inside of the tube and rim and the tire man patched it in the field and things never got washed off clean, leaving a residue on the inside.
If you are asking me.....yes, it was only one tire.  Your scenario sounds very plausible.  Was only a few years after we bought the tractor used, so we don't know, but sounds plausible.  My opinion and practice, is why mess with it when there's something noncorrosive.   Just a decision we made a long time ago.  They say the beet juice is hard on valve stems.  We haven't had much trouble, so, whatever.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 6:38pm
Engineering is usually a compromise. To get one thing, you may have to give something up. As far as I know, the 10 lb per gallon mix of calcium is the heaviest liquid, but is extremely corrosive. Calcium is a rubber preservative, so it starts on the valve stem/core and then the rim, never the tube or tire.  RV antifreeze is lighter, probably 7 lbs per gallon, and I don't think it's hard on anything corrosion wise.  Beet juice I know nothing about other than not supposed to be hard on rims if you get a leak.  Cast iron is removable if needed and non-corrosive for sure. But to match the weight gain of fluid, it takes a bunch of it. Often on big tractors on 30 inch rows the weights stick waaay out to catch fence posts. An 18.4 x 38 can hold 1,000 lbs of fluid in each rear tire, in comparison to 1,000 lbs of cast iron on each tire.  I like fluid. I like the ride. I like the fact that it's out of the way and cheap. I have fixed new modern FWA tractors with a 25 mph road gear that had a front end bouncing problem by adding half fill of fluid in the front tires. All the air pressure changes in the world couldn't fix the bounce, but fluid did. Pick your poison and live with it.

Edited by DrAllis - 01 Dec 2021 at 6:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6GTOM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 10:50pm
I owned a tire shop for 22+ years and pumped thousands of gallons of calcium over the years. We just replaced the rims on dads 1956 WD45 because of calcium. Put new tubes in your tires. If you have a loader, are going to plow, going to use a blade especially in the winter you will want fluid in those tires. Beet juice will not pump in or out of your tires if it gets below freezing. Calcium weighs 11 pounds per gallon. All the rest of the stuff is lighter. We put calcium back in the 14.9x28 tires on dads 45. My son uses it to blade snow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6GTOM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 10:52pm
I owned a tire shop for 22+ years and pumped thousands of gallons of calcium over the years. We just replaced the rims on dads 1956 WD45 because of calcium. Put new tubes in your tires. If you have a loader, are going to plow, going to use a blade especially in the winter you will want fluid in those tires. Beet juice will not pump in or out of your tires if it gets below freezing. Calcium weighs 11 pounds per gallon. All the rest of the stuff is lighter. We put calcium back in the 14.9x28 tires on dads 45. My son uses it to blade snow. If you are going to put 16.9 x28 tires on your 17, get the proper width rims for them. Rims off a late series 4 17 should be the right width.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2021 at 6:28am
Rim Guard weighs 10.7-11 pounds per gallon. CC weighs 10.5-12 depending on the mix ratio. Weight wise I’d say it’s pretty comparable!
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