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DMiller 
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 Topic: Rails
Posted: 06 Dec 2012 at 8:17am |
Well I am throwing in the first real towel, the old rails won't stay together long enough to get any real work out of the machine so I am working to replace them before I really break something that cannot be fixed readily. I have three companies working on used 6.906 Cat or Deere rails, the track man at DES stated the dimensions are very close for the link outer width and sprocket space so they are pulling up all the info they can to see what we can do if we need to go new or newer, Cat or Deere. Willie at Chartrand is scouring the yard looking at the old cats to see what he still has off a 953 or 951C or 955K, they all used 6.906 but the shoes varied, may have to settle on 14" if the 15" shoes are too scarce. Also sent a letter of interest to Draco Equipment on a set of custom built new for pricing but not counting on that one.
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Ray54
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Joined: 22 Nov 2009
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Posted: 06 Dec 2012 at 12:38pm |
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The early Cat D5 used 6.91 if I am not mistaken.And over on the Antique Caterpillar Machinery Owner club there was notice of one of the after market company's is having a sale on rails currently.It is in the for sale area.Sorry I am not smart enough to post a link. Hope this will be of help.
Ray
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DMiller
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Posted: 06 Dec 2012 at 3:28pm |
thanks Ray, There are a lot of cat equipment sitill using 6.91 or 6.906 rail, very good size by looks of it for longevity.
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ianoz
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Posted: 06 Dec 2012 at 4:04pm |
This is the post on cat forum Ray was talking about .
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 06 Dec 2012 at 5:11pm |
TRACK AND TRACK FRAMES
Learning Objective: Identify the operational components of the track and track frame. Describe the maintenance procedures used on tracks and track frame assemblies.The undercarriage of crawler-mounted equipment contains two major components- TRACK ASSEMBLY and TRACK FRAME. This under-carriage (fig. 6-18) is provided on equipment that must have positive traction to operate efficiently. TRACK ASSEMBLY
The track assembly consists of a continuous chain surrounding the track frame and drive sprocket. The links of the chain provide a flat surface for the track rollers to pass over, as they support the equipment. Track shoes are bolted to the outside links of the chain and distribute the weight of the equipment over a large surface area. Track Chain
Figure 6-19 shows a cutaway view of a section of track chain, showing the internal arrangement of the pins and bushings. As the tractor operates, the drive sprocket teeth contact the track pin bushings and propel the tractor along the track assembly. 
Figure 6-19.- Track chain cutaway. The pins and bushings wear much faster than other parts of the track because of their constant pivoting, as the track rotates around the track frame. This pivoting results in internal wear of both the pin and the bushing. As the pins and bushings wear, the track lengthens. When it does, the track is adjusted to remove excessive slack. Bushings that show lots of wear on the outside are good indicators of inner wear that is also nearing the maximum allowed by the manufacturer, if the track is to be rebuilt. To determine whether the track should be removed for rebuilding or replacement, measure the outside of the bushings and track "pitch" (length of thetrack). Use an outside caliper and ruler, as shown in figure 6-20. Measure the outside of the bushing where it shows the most wear and compare it to the manufacturer's specifications. 
Figure 6-18.- Side view of crawler tractor chassis.
Measure track pitch with a ruler or tape measure after tightening the track to remove any slack, as shown in figure 6-21. Should the bushing wear or track length be excessive, remove the track for rebuilding unless facilities and time do not permit. Rebuilding a track will nearly double the useful life of the pin and bushings. 
Figure 6-20.- Bushing wear measurement. 
Figure 6-21.- Track pitch measurement.
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Mactractor
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Posted: 06 Dec 2012 at 6:19pm |
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No luck on any contacts for dry steer clutch HD11 rails which your pads will bolt directly to Dave?
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 06 Dec 2012 at 6:22pm |
http://www.banama.com.sg/images/products/Chetras%20Brochures003.pdf
Somewhere within this post section I posted a link to what the pitch of many tracks are and the possibility of one Mfg chain working on another machine . Like IH - TD9 track has same pitch as HD5 or HD6 - if the pads will fit is not known but the pitch and rollers are the same.
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Lazyts
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Posted: 06 Dec 2012 at 6:32pm |
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Man I PM'd you about earlier in north Missouri had a set of chains for old HD11 that should be serviceable- might not be the best route, but would probably be cheapest. It's pretty easy to spend more on these old girls than they are worth...
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Lazyts
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Posted: 06 Dec 2012 at 6:39pm |
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I almost put a set of 700H SALT chains on an 11-B last year, found a set real cheap, but the pads weren't- by the time I put pads on them they were just way too much... found a set of used Allis rails instead. You know everything is going to fit that way, too. I've heard a few stories now about fitting a D5 chain and sprocket to HD11, but haven't seen one. Kent from K&S Farms (see other posts on this forum) was telling me they've been putting D5 rollers on the later 11s, just bolting the roller to flat iron, and welding the flat iron to the underside of the track frame. Probably would only work on the later HD11s, earlier ones had smaller rollers.
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DMiller
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Posted: 07 Dec 2012 at 9:27am |
The 7G is the worst oddball, 7.0 pitch with a 2.28" bushing and 1.56" pins, 15" shoes. I have measured and remeasured the old rails, got with Eric at DES and had his track crew go through their manuals (they still show some of the Allis rails dimensions) I have my service manuals for wear specs. Cat 6.906 is a last shot, the IHC/Dresser rails in 7.0 pitch are as obsolete and unavailable as these on mine and I already have a set of worn out rails not needing to buy more that won't go the mark.. While speaking to the track crew the foreman stated at least in MN there were a lot of fellas rebushed their old Allis rails as a life stretch for the old machines and possibly someone here had these old rails repinned/bushed at some time but the wear in the link eyes is too far along now to keep them from snaking off. The guys are doing a dimension check for 953 segment sprocket diameter as well 955K and 951C to see if a weld on ring can be had or built to convert the 7G correctly. Lower rollers should be good to go for width of rail segments/height of link and the uppers should handle them as well, some questions remain as to the idlers but they are checking that against the Cat sizing for me. Be my luck Coke to end up like your D6U, drop a trans or a final after setting up rails but I am working things out.
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 07 Dec 2012 at 11:59pm |
Here are some sizes of the link spacing for pin centers - also one for rail height on same link . http://www.crawlerheaven.com/wearlimits.htm
| | HD3, HD 4, 652, 653, 655 | 610 | 24.01 | 613 | 24.14 | 619 | 24.25 | 619 | 24.36 | 623 | 24.53 | | HD5, HD6, 150 H, 155 | 660 | 25.98 | 663 | 26.1 | 671 | 26.26 | 671 | 26.42 | 676 | 26.6 | | HD7G, 8G, HD9, HD11, EP, B250H | 711 | 28 | 714.5 | 28.12 | 725 | 28.31 | 725 | 28.54 | 731 | 28.78 | | HD15, HD16, 350, HD316 | 800 | 31.5 | 804 | 31.65 | 814 | 31.84 | 814 | 32.04 | 821 | 32.32 | | 12G, HD16D, 16B | 798 | 31.41 | 802.5 | 31.59 | 813 | 31.79 | 813 | 32 | 820 | 32.28 | | HD19, HD20, HD21 | 915 | 36.01 | 919.5 | 36.2 | 930 | 36.39 | 930 | 36.6 | 937 | 36.89 | | HD21P, HD21B | 915 | 36.01 | 919.5 | 36.2 | 931 | 36.39 | 931 | 36.65 | 938 | 36.92 | | FD30, 21C | 919 | 36.18 | 924 | 36.37 | 936 | 36.59 | 936 | 36.85 | 943 | 37.12 | | FD40, 31, 41 | 1147 | 45.15 | 1152.5 | 45.37 | 1176 | 45.6 | 1176 | 46.29 | 1185 | 46.65 | | FD50, 41 B | 1147 | 45.15 | 1152.5 | 45.37 | 1177 | 45.62 | 1177 | 46.34 | 1186 | 46.7 |
Edited by Coke-in-MN - 08 Dec 2012 at 12:01am
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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DMiller
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Posted: 08 Dec 2012 at 9:24am |
I have those and have downloaded the Draco Equipment rail charts for their suppliers rail measurements as it has bushing OD pin OD, sprocket sizes and tooth counts, lots of information out there. At 50% life the Cat 6.906 rails stretch to 28" measure, the same as new 7 pitch rail, the measurement for rail height , width, the inner spread for sprocket all within mm of each other so may work well for me if I can find a decent set off a 951C or a 953 with 15 or 14" shoes already on. These had 39 and 40 or41 links, would have to take them to a track shop for removal of the extras down to 37 as are on my machine. from Cralwer Heaven:
| HD7G, 155, HD9, 11, 250H, 8G |
103.2 |
4.06 |
101.7 |
4.00 |
99.8 |
3.92 |
97.5 |
3.84 |
95 |
3.73 |
| 953, D5, 561C, 951C, 955K, L, 225 |
103.2 |
4.06 |
101.5 |
4.00 |
99.5 |
3.92 |
97 |
3.81 |
94 |
3.70 |
Edited by DMiller - 08 Dec 2012 at 9:27am
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DMiller
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Posted: 08 Dec 2012 at 9:26am |
This is the Cat sizing chart showing the close dimension of the 6.906 rail :
| Machine
Model |
New |
Percent Warn
Chart |
|
25% |
50% |
75% |
100% |
| mm |
in |
mm |
in |
mm |
in |
mm |
in |
mm |
in |
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|
935,D2,933C,D3,931 |
622 |
24.48 |
625 |
24.6 |
628 |
24.71 |
632 |
24.87 |
637 |
25.07 |
|
D4,933E,G,955c,941,943 |
686 |
27.00 |
689.5 |
27.14 |
693.5 |
27.31 |
698 |
27.48 |
703 |
27.67 |
|
D6,951,955C,561 |
686 |
27.00 |
690 |
27.17 |
694.5 |
27.34 |
699 |
27.51 |
704 |
27.71 |
|
D5,955K,561C,951C,953 |
702 |
27.64 |
706 |
27.79 |
710.5 |
27.96 |
716 |
28.18 |
722 |
28.42 |
|
D6C,D7,572,977,D8,583,955L,
963 |
813 |
32.00 |
817.5 |
32.18 |
822.5 |
32.37 |
828 |
32.59 |
835 |
32.87 |
|
D7E,F,571,572E,F,977L,973 |
864 |
34.01 |
868.5 |
34.18 |
874 |
34.4 |
880 |
34.64 |
887 |
34.92 |
|
D8H,583H,983 |
915 |
36.01 |
920 |
36.21 |
925.5 |
36.43 |
932 |
36.68 |
939 |
36.96 |
|
D9Super,D9D,E,G,594 |
1042 |
41.03 |
1046.5 |
41.20 |
1053 |
41.45 |
1060 |
41.73 |
1070 |
42.14 |
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DMiller
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Posted: 08 Dec 2012 at 9:29am |
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Thanks to the guys on the 11 dry clutch rail option but I am going to try to update the old girl so I can find materials more readily or keep them at hand longer. Hate to see the swap to Cat but I have to keep my options open.
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 08 Dec 2012 at 9:54am |
It use to be BERCO had a real good size chart for just about every machine - then someone in their high intelligence said people do not need to know that information and they will not give it out . I e-mailed one Berco rep and his answer was that other companies were using their information to mfg parts . Now if someone can mfg from a rough line drawing - they must be good.
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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DMiller
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Posted: 08 Dec 2012 at 3:22pm |
Anyone heard of sorefa rails? There are a bunch for sale on Machinery trader under track groups, I can find little to nothing on them on the net. Are a few sets for D5 and appear to have been sitting outdoors for a long time. Did find Passini, a.k.a. Valuepart or Vtrack, they show some of the old F/A (CNH, FIAT) stuff IE: FL10 and the 175 Dresser units in their list but there was more than one series of rail for the Dressers.
Edited by DMiller - 08 Dec 2012 at 3:25pm
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 08 Dec 2012 at 3:38pm |
When I was looking for rails for my FD5 I was having a problem finding them also . I ended up getting a used set from Thill Track and Tractor in Eau Clare WI , they had a set they had sent to Canada and were setting there for a year or two. I also got 7 rollers from them . Might try them again to see it they might have a lead on AC parts .
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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DMiller
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Posted: 08 Dec 2012 at 4:29pm |
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Thill was out of and unable to locate any f the old 7 pitch at the beginning of my parts searches as I knew the shoes were slick, they could not even get used shoes anymore. General Gear in Boise had a few pieces and the section of six they sent me for patch material was actually better than what I currently have but was all he had of any reasonable value.
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