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Progress on the '50 WD |
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DaveKamp ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5998 |
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Hey everybody!
Okay, so in the past, you've probably heard me mention the '50 WD. This one was rescued by fellow forum brother Chuck Ludke up in the Green Bay area several years ago... rescued from a nearby farm, probably saved it from a parting-scrapping death. Engine was stuck, but not for long... took me about an hour to break it free, and had it running within a few hours. Problem is, it wasn't holding coolant. Some ended up in the pan, some in the #3 cylinder. There was a patch across the lower edge of the water jacket, beneath the carbeurator. After working on it, I found the typical crack between cylinders, but worse, the webbing between base of the center sleeves was cracked, so the sleeves lacked support. My original plan was to replace the block, pulling all the internals and transplanting them into a different block, and I managed to acquire a block, but business travel, neck surgery, house projects and activities with the kids provided with little time to finish it. I recently got the opportunity to get a WD-45 engine from AJ in Indiana, had it picked up by a co-worker who was travelling through his area, and yesterday, a local buddy (IH enthusiast Josh Spicer) came down to join me in a wrench-a-thon. We pulled the WD motor out, and dropped in the WD-45 mill. Today, another buddy (drummer Mike, a virgin, but now convert to wrenching old tractors) helped me get the intake/exhaust and ignition systems on, water pump in place, and a few other things. I would have done these myself, but this morning I tore something in my arm (probably distal bicep), so my abilities are somewhat limited. With the help of friends, it's gotten to within a few hours or test-firing it back into operation. Stay tuned- More news later! |
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CAL(KS) ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 18 Sep 2009 Location: Chapman, KS Points: 3800 |
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congrats, its a beautiful sound when they roar to life, sounds like your awful close.
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
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CTuckerNWIL ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22823 |
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Dave, next wrenchathon, give me a call and I'll see if I can come down and help (get in the way)
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http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
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DaveKamp ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5998 |
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It's ALIVE!
Yep, got all the critical componentry back in place and connected, set the timing to something basic, and just about the time I was ready, the battery got too weak to crank it over. (rats!). So I flipped the choke closed, stuck the crank in it, grabbed it with my good arm, grasped the crank properly, and pulled it past TDC... and it lit right up! Sounds nice and stable, no valve racket, no barking or sneezing. Does leak oil out the side of the block where the oil filter mounts... bolts are down tight so must be a bad gasket or something. I ran it for about two minutes without the water pump spinning, but the radiator/block are full of water, saw no bubbles coming up... and no leaks coming out. Dipstick is right midway in the good range, so I'll check it tomorrow and see if any of the status indications change... hopefully, all will remain, then I'll bolt the radiator and generator back in place, fix that oil issue, and fire it up (yeah, it's on the charger). I love it when a plan comes together!!! |
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ChuckLuedtkeSEWI ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Jackson, WI Points: 1826 |
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Dave, glad to hear you got her running again. I think I told you that tractor came from a farm on the west side of WI and was the only tractor for a 100 acre farm for many years. It was too nice to part out, glad you're getting her going again. I will forward the news to my sister. I think she keeps in contact with her neighbor, who's late husbands father was the original owner.
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1955 WD45 diesel 203322 was my dad's tractor, 1966 D15 23530, 1961 HD3 Crawler 1918, 1966 D17 IV 83495, 1937 WC 41255, 1962 D19 6221
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DaveKamp ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5998 |
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Hi Chuck!
Yep, happy to have it back amidst the living- once she's up and running turn-key, I'll fabricate a 3-point hitch for it, and probably a belly-blade for redirecting snow. I just-might put a cab on it, but I'll do it in a way that doesn't subject any of it to irreversable distress. Cool thing is... the old engine, aside from the cracked webbing, was otherwise a good runner, which means it'll donate sleeves, slugs, and connecting rods to make my '37 WC live again! Double bonus!!! The '37's sitting on two flat tires on mix/match wheels... but I've got a pair of half-decent steel rears for her... shouldn't take to long to make her self-mobile once the engine's back amidst the living. BTW... I'm still workin' on finding you The Right MIG for your tool armory. ;-) Wrench On! |
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CTuckerNWIL ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22823 |
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Dave, Those oil filter bases are die cast. Many have been over torqued and need filed flat on the back to seal up. I believe it also helps to have a thicker cork gasket.
There was a post on here couple years ago about filling the hollow back side of the base with JB weld or some other material to stiffen it up and have a good base for the gasket. Check out the block surface when you have it off. My CA is just flat cast, no noticeable machined flat to mount the housing. |
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http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
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DaveKamp ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5998 |
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Hi Charlie!
Thanks for the tip. I dealt with this a little with the D17... just had to snug it, but it was not nearly as bad as this one (it bleeds pretty good). I have some regular gasket material, which probably isn't thick enough. Don't have any cork, but I think I have a scrap of neoprene that's big enough. I'll back the bolts and lines off, rinse it out and see what I'm dealing with. Filling the voids sounds like an excellent idea, and I have some special 'company' epoxy that'd work well... perhaps I can drop it in the Bridgeport and mill it flat... then take a few light passes over the boss with a grinding wheel and straightedge to make a good mating surface? |
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DaveKamp ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5998 |
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BTW... next major wrench-a-thon will be to dismast and strip the Clark down to a bare chassis, so I can fit the new hydrostatic full-time 4wd driveline in!!!
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DaveKamp ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5998 |
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Okay, so she initially started and ran just fine, but didn't seem to be cooling... engine was plenty warm, but both radiator hoses and the rad were cold. Noticed that the water level in the radiator had risen enough to exercise the cap, so she's too warm. Shut it down, took out the thermostat, and alternated 'tween a boiling pan and a bucket of icewater... didn't get in any hurry to open in the boiling pan, which is exactly what I expected. After a few minutes in the boil-pan, it started to open. I cycled it back-and-forth between hot and cold, and it does move okay, but won't open or close completely, so T-stat is toast. I put the neck back on with no T-stat just to see how well the rad and water pump would flow. They're doing fine, holds the engine temp down really well, so time to get a new T-stat.
I did a basic cleanup and epoxy fill on the oil filter bracket, then used conventional gasket material (not enough neoprene)... didn't seal completely, so I'm gonna get some more neoprene... and I'm pretty sure that'll solve the oil issue. Next step will be to get the gen/reg converted to 12v, air-cleaner on, get the tin reinstalled, pop the shifter off, see if I can fix the kicks-aggressively-out-of-3rd issue, then change the trans/hydraulic/final oil, and make a 3-point kit for it. It is back to the land of the living, as a casual utility-working machine that just might wind up getting shown in her work clothes now'n then. |
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DaveKamp ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5998 |
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Okay, got the oil filter base sealed up good, steering's reconnected, everything bolted back down good enough to take it for a test drive. Oil pressure gauge has seen better days, so it's getting replaced at first opportunity. Engine temp gauge is indicating nicely, and she's staying cool and running nice. In 4th gear, at idle, I pulled in the hand clutch, and once rolling, I grabbed a mitt-full of throttle, slapped it to WFO, and she hopped the front wheels off the ground, and scratched the rear tires with quite a bark from the muffler... so it's not a weakling.
I've got some issues to diagnose in the transmission... it wasn't 3rd that it was aggressively kicking out... it was 2nd. 3rd gear makes some lunchy-noises, like a bearing problem or something, 1st and 4th are fine... so I'll pull the shift tower and take a look inside. I'm hoping it's something I can fix from up top, but assuming I'll hafta split the rear end. I need to make a good set of splitting stands anyway... but for now, she runs and drives, so I can motor her around to the other barn and get the '37 whipped into similar state. |
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DaveKamp ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5998 |
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Took her for a drive down the road and back, then drained the water (I use water temporarily during the summer when I know I'll be emptying the cooling system for service alot, but when done, they all get 50/50) for a thermostat installation.
Something I noticed while running down the hill, up the other side... and back, is that this motor is torquey... normally when I drive the D17 up the hill, the RPMs sag a tad making the climb... the WD doesn't even flinch. Think it's due to the governor, or is the 17 just that much heavier? For general info, the D17 is all stock, original, and untouched, just adjusted valves, rebuilt carb, and electronic ignition module. The WD has a WD45 motor, but has the distributor setup and governor from the WD, with a WD carb on a threaded-pipe type D17 manifold... |
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Allis dave ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 10 May 2012 Location: Northern IN Points: 2991 |
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I have a WD45 and when driving up a hill the governor will kick in and speed up a moter a little. Sounds like what yours does. Great to hear the project is close to completed!
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DaveKamp ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5998 |
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Hmmm... well, mine doesn't kick it up at all... it just doesn't sag... throttle comes on a little bit, but it's like that motor doesn't even notice the load... while the d17 does notice. Neither have ballast, and I didn't think the 17 was THAT much heavier...
Anyway, this morning's exercise in futility: Pulled the water neck to install a new t-stat... the NAPA 155, it's a 180F unit, looks like a typical modern automotive tstat, but comes with a rubber gasket (on top) and a brass skirt (on bottom). The idea is, you assemble the works, and stuff it up in the upper half of the neck, install the gasket, and bolt it to the lower. Problem is, the brass skirt is about 0.040" larger in OD than the upper half's ID. I scrubbed the ID of the upper half, got all the crud out, and it simply will NOT go in... and of course, the assembly won't land flush, or seal at all, if it doesn't. WTH?? I know I used this same part on the D17... are there different variations in upper halves? the one I'm using came off the WD motor... the D17 motor uses a different head and lower neck (back port is blocked with a plate, front port is bigger), so I'm using the WD45 lower and a WD upper... |
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SteveM C/IL ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8522 |
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The parts book is showing different t-stat with different tops.WD no bypass VS WD45 w/bypass port. The base on late WD's are same as WD45's but using different tops requires different t-stats. No WD's used the bypass top. The 45 setup looks like the D17 I just worked on. Confused?
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DaveKamp ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5998 |
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Yeah, I guess so. The lower neck doesn't have any special bypass passages that I see... just a gaping hole to the head... top half doesn't have one either. The WD setup didn't seem to have any bypass... it appears that the design was simple... that the only thing the tstat does, is restrict flow through the rad when engine temp is low.
Original WD tstat (the one that was in it, that didn't work) has a 3/16" bypass hole through the door... which allowed flow to pass (and bubbles to escape) with sufficient flow over the wax motor to open it up as the engine warmed... The NAPA 155 has a fair amount of bypass cavity because of how it sits inside the brass 'skirt'... I guess I don't know what to think. I DO know, however, that the 155's skirt doesn't fit in the WD upper neck. I did order a 55 (the 160F NAPA part, also spec'd for Allis WC, WD, WD45), so I'll have one in hand (bad pun... seein's how I've got one arm in a brace) in a few days. |
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captaindana ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Fort Plain, NY Points: 2545 |
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Wow Dave I have really enjoyed this post. And here I thought I was the only guy working in the heat on a tractor. lol. That 45 engine sounds snappy, ya can't beat em!! I am having my own wrenchathon here if you want to join. I received the wrong axle seal so I won't be driving around town this weekend on the XT. DO you have relation in up NY? If so we may be related through my wife lol![longshot]
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DaveKamp ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5998 |
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Hey Captain- About two centuries ago, I had some ancestors on my mom's side that had a farm in what's now called 'Union Settlement'... in Oswego county, just north of Oswego Lake... the cemetery stones are still very clean and visible, but like most dead people, they don't get out to visit much... ;-) The name was Gates.
I just drove by your place a few weeks ago, on my way to an assignment in Canaan, NY... I wish I knew where everybody was, so I could visit... but it's probably a good thing for me (and them) that I don't, lest I'd never get to my job assignments on time... I'm swinging by NAPA on my way to the office, gonna take the upper neck along and see if the NAPA 55 tstat is in... it should be... perhaps there's be a revelation... |
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bitburn ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Jun 2012 Location: Indiana Points: 36 |
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I think we need some wrenchathon picture posted.
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AC WD45 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 28 Sep 2009 Location: Mid Michigan Points: 2060 |
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pictures. please!
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German Shepherd dad
1957 Allis Chalmers WD45 #WD234847 1951 Allis Chalmers WD #WD88193 |
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SteveM C/IL ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8522 |
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the bypass is in upper hsg...WD45 and later. The early WD's had a 2 port water manifold then switched to front head port only on later WD's on up.
agcopartsbooks.com
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DaveKamp ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5998 |
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DaveKamp ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5998 |
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Okay, so I picked up the OTHER thermostat... NAPA 55... which is a 160F unit...
And the lower skirt is the same as the 155... too big to fit in the neck going to the radiator: ![]() |
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DaveKamp ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5998 |
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So now what?
Here's the parts listings from the Agco parts site: WD / WD45 / WD45D TRACTOR; POWER UNIT - W226 79001544 COOLING SYSTEM - MANIFOLD, WATER, WD PRIOR S/N 289000 Page 78 Item Part Number Qty Description GAS & L.P.G. **************************************** Add to Pick List 1 70210156 1 MANIFOLD, water Add to Pick List 2 70233216 2 GASKET, manifold to cylinder head 3 4 STUD, water manifold (Refer to CYLINDER HEAD group) 4 4 WASHER, water manifold stud (Refer to CYLINDER HEAD group) 5 4 NUT, water manifold stud (Refer to CYLINDER HEAD group) Add to Pick List 6 70231441 1 COVER, thermostat housing Add to Pick List 70921959 3 CAPSCREW (Used w/70210155) Add to Pick List 70916964 3 LOCKWASHER Add to Pick List 70921961 3 CAPSCREW (Used w/70231441) Add to Pick List 7 70210157 1 THERMOSTAT, water Add to Pick List 8 70210158 1 GASKET, thermostat housing cover WD / WD45 / WD45D TRACTOR; POWER UNIT - W226 79001544 COOLING SYSTEM - MANIFOLD, WATER, WD EFF. S/N 289000 & UP Page 80 Item Part Number Qty Description GAS & L.P.G. **************************************** Add to Pick List 1 70224729 2 STUD, water manifold (Refer to CYLINDER HEAD group) Add to Pick List 2 70233218 1 GASKET, water manifold to cylinder head Add to Pick List 3 70225012 1 HOUSING, thermostat Add to Pick List 70225035 1 HOUSING, thermostat (For butane units only) Add to Pick List 4 70203461 2 NUT, water manifold stud (Refer to CYLINDER HEAD group) 5 1 COVER, thermostat housing (Use 70231441 & 3 of 70921961) Add to Pick List 70921959 3 CAPSCREW Add to Pick List 70916964 3 LOCKWASHER Add to Pick List 6 70210157 1 THERMOSTAT, water Add to Pick List 7 70210158 1 GASKET, thermostat housing cover WD / WD45 / WD45D TRACTOR; POWER UNIT - W226 79001544 COOLING SYSTEM - MANIFOLD, WATER, WD45 & W226, GAS & L.P.G. Page 82 Item Part Number Qty Description Add to Pick List 1 70224729 2 STUD (Refer to CYLINDER HEAD group) Add to Pick List 2 70233218 1 GASKET, thermostat housing Add to Pick List 3 70225012 1 HOUSING, thermostat Add to Pick List 4 70203461 2 NUT (Refer to CYLINDER HEAD group) Add to Pick List 5 70210158 1 GASKET, thermostat cover Add to Pick List 6 70228543 1 THERMOSTAT ASY. (160 Deg.) (Incl. Item 7) Add to Pick List 70229927 1 THERMOSTAT ASY. (180 Deg.) (Incl. Item 7) Add to Pick List 7 70230643 1 GASKET, thermostat Add to Pick List 8 70231440 1 COVER, thermostat Add to Pick List 70231441 1 COVER, thermostat (For L.P.G. butane units) Add to Pick List 70921961 3 CAPSCREW Add to Pick List 70916964 3 LOCKWASHER Add to Pick List 9 70226315 1 PIPE, water bypass Add to Pick List 10 70226316 1 * HOSE, water bypass (Prior To Engine S/N 45-50789) Add to Pick List 70227018 1 HOSE, water bypass (Eff. Engine S/N 45-50789 & Up) Add to Pick List 70921912 2 CLAMP, hose 11 1 PIPE, water bypass (Prior to Engine S/N 45-50789) (Use 70226315 & 70227018) **************************************** * WD45 Tractor WD / WD45 / WD45D TRACTOR; POWER UNIT - W226 79001544 COOLING SYSTEM - MANIFOLD, WATER, W226 PRIOR S/N PU-97614 Page 84 Item Part Number Qty Description Add to Pick List 1 70224729 2 STUD, water manifold (Refer to CYLINDER HEAD group) Add to Pick List 2 70233218 1 GASKET, water manifold to cylinder head Add to Pick List 3 70225035 1 HOUSING, thermost Add to Pick List 70905261 1 PLUG, pipe Add to Pick List 4 70203461 2 NUT, water manifold stud (Refer to CYLINDER HEAD group) Add to Pick List 5 70231440 1 COVER, thermostat housing Add to Pick List 70921961 3 CAPSCREW Add to Pick List 70916964 3 LOCKWASHER Add to Pick List 6 70226315 1 PIPE, cover bypass Add to Pick List 7 70226316 1 HOSE, bypass Add to Pick List 70921912 2 CLAMP, hose Add to Pick List 8 70230643 1 GASKET, thermostat Add to Pick List 9 70228543 1 THERMOSTAT KIT (Incl. GASKET) Add to Pick List 10 70210158 1 GASKET, thermostat housing cover ** W226 Power Unit PU 97614 & Up WD / WD45 / WD45D TRACTOR; POWER UNIT - W226 79001544 COOLING SYSTEM - MANIFOLD, WATER, WD45, DIESEL Page 86 Item Part Number Qty Description 1 1 MANIFOLD, water outlet (Use 74505072 & 70901654) Add to Pick List 70904233 1 PLUG, pipe Add to Pick List 2 74501162 1 GASKET, rear (Prior to Engine S/N 121524) Add to Pick List 74513722 1 GASKET, rear (Eff. Engine S/N 121524) Add to Pick List 3 74501162 1 GASKET, front (Prior to Engine S/N 121524) Add to Pick List 74513722 1 GASKET, front (Eff. Engine S/N 121524) Add to Pick List 4 74505449 1 GASKET, center (Prior to Engine S/N 121524) Add to Pick List 74513723 1 GASKET, center (Eff. Engine S/N 121524) Add to Pick List 5 74300145 1 GASKET, housing Add to Pick List 6 74512372 1 THERMOSTAT Add to Pick List 7 70923649 1 RING, seal, neoprene Add to Pick List 8 74503872 1 HOUSING, thermostat Add to Pick List 70923903 2 CAPSCREW Add to Pick List 70916965 2 LOCKWASHER Add to Pick List 9 74001645 1 GASKET, water outlet Add to Pick List 10 74504312 1 PIPE, water outlet Add to Pick List 70921210 2 CAPSCREW Add to Pick List 70916965 2 LOCKWASHER Add to Pick List 11 74507429 1 LINE, bypass Add to Pick List 12 74253453 4 CLAMP, hose Add to Pick List 13 74351688 2 HOSE Add to Pick List 14 74500291 1 GASKET, inlet pipe Add to Pick List 15 74507400 1 PIPE, water inlet Add to Pick List 70923502 1 CAPSCREW Add to Pick List 16 74251369 1 WASHER Edited by DaveKamp - 07 Jul 2012 at 2:45pm |
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DaveKamp ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5998 |
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Unfortunately, I cannot see the images, because I cannot install Microsoft Silverlight.
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TREVMAN ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 04 Jan 2010 Location: Regina,Sask,Can Points: 1635 |
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Ditch the stat and move on. I dont run one, if you are not going to use it in cold weather, I dont see it as a problem. Others are likely to disagree, Trev.
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DaveKamp ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5998 |
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Hi Trev!
Well, that'd be my first contention, except I WILL be running it in cold weather... probably -20F on regular occasion... I'll eventually fit a V-plow to the front of it, for busting through snowdrifts to get down the mile and a half of gravel to the highway... I've been contemplating my options, and I realized that if I glued some PVC pipe sleeves and pipe segments together, I could probably get enough material built up, to machine down to make an adapter similar to this thing. In reality, all the 'skirt' does, is make it so that it fits a standard automotive thermostat form-factor. I've never found a situation where PVC was unable to take the heat, but if it winds up being too soft, I'll just make the danged thing out'a steel... that's what lathes and welders are for, right? |
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captaindana ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Fort Plain, NY Points: 2545 |
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Well Dave I wish you could have stopped in had I known and been here. If I was in your stat perdicament [sp?] I would take the housing to the auto place and try and find one to fit, and I guess if you already have btdt then if vendors here can't help maybe tractor junkyard for a swapable housing like off a D17? I just replaced the 17 III stat and the XT and the 15 II from auto store so those must fit. Actially I would just machine what I had so the stat will fit probably and that would be the end of it.
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DaveKamp ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5998 |
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Dunno, Captain- I looked at my WC's, which have different housing arrangements... since this is my only WD, and I don't have a WD-45 (aside from this engine), I have no clue what's really wrong here. On the up-side, it's been stupid-extra hot here the last 5 days or so, but seems like the 'fever' kinda broke a bit, so I'll be getting some stuff done outside, perhaps get a few minutes of sleuthing time in this afternoon and get something figured out.
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SteveM C/IL ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8522 |
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Seems to me that 70210157 is the one you need...don't know NAPA's # for that or if their translation is correct(seen that before). I was thinking it was more-less the same as Chevy 's from 70's-80's. You'll figure somthing out.
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