Best way to split a B?
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=128803
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Topic: Best way to split a B?
Posted By: CrestonM
Subject: Best way to split a B?
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 3:57pm
| What's the best way to split a B behind the engine? Supporting the rear won't be a problem, but how do you do the front half without the wheels maybe turning left/right and the whole thing falling? I'll be separating it to get to the oil pump. |
Replies:
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 4:03pm
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If you have an overhead steel beam, it's child's play. Put B under beam, use 2 chain hoists, block front spindles with 4by4 or similar to keep wheels from turning( that works with D-14). for proper support use SOLID wood blocking NOT 'concrete blocks'. go slow and steady ... Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 4:05pm
| I haven't done a b but on the d serries you just make up some wooden wedges out if blocks and wedge both sides of the front axle to the counter weight so it can't wiggle. |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 4:07pm
| I put a heavy duty floor jack under the transmission for a 3 point support on the rearend then roll it back away from the front which is blocked and wedged to stay in place. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 4:09pm
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I use an overhead beam like jay said.. lift the motor and just let the wheels roll forward.. peg with wedges......... You can also use an engine hoist in front of the radiator and roll the axle and motor forward on that. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 4:11pm
 ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Bill Long
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 4:38pm
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When we split them we used a wheeled crane. We would hitch to the valve cover and roll the front forward. Sometimes, in the field, we had to get "creative". Best I can remember is we tiel the engine to a strong tree branch and walked the rear away. Little tougher than on a level floor with a crane but it worked In any event you do not have a lot of weight to handle. Take good care of my favorite. Good Luck! Bill Long
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Posted By: Ted in NE-OH
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 5:56pm
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I have not tried this, but will. How about 4 pieces of 5/8" running thread to replace the bolts and just separate the two halves a few inches, just enough to get to the oil pump. Comments please. ------------- CA, WD, C, 3 Bs, 2 Gs, WC, I-400, 914 |
Posted By: Hubnut
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 6:34pm
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I lift the front of the tractor, then attach these angle plates to the torque tube. I use an engine hoist to pull the motor. http://s202.photobucket.com/user/cytochromeP450/media/DSCN5538_zpsftwigyga.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  ------------- 1940 B "Lucy" 1941 B w/ Woods L59 "Flavia" 1942 B w/ finish mower "Dick" 1941 C w/ 3-point "Maggie" 1947 C SFW w/ L306 "Trixie" 1972 314H |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 6:39pm
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I am lucky enough to have a four post auto lift. I put it up enough to walk under without ducking and use some old tractor frame rails for cross pieces and come-alongs with chains. Once it's split, I have several 12" x 16" x 3" (thick) wooden blocks that I use for safety. This is by far the best way I've found for supporting a tractor. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 8:27pm
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Steve, what is the chain hooked onto in that pic? Does it hook to a bolt? And Bill...when you say hitch to the valve cover...how do you do that? I would think that cover would bend easily.
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Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 8:30pm
| Pull one of the valve cover bolts stick the bolt through the chain and put it back the bolt is taking the load not the valve cover. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 8:34pm
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In my photo above there is a 2 x 2 angle iron laying on top of the valve cover. It bolts on with the 2 or 4 valve cover STUDS ( older covers had only 2 studs, new have 4) ... the angle has 3-4 different holes for lifting. In the photo I have lifted at the rear of the angle ( rear of the motor) and then roll forward on the tires.... when the axle is removed, I use a lifting hole in the center of the 2 x 2 angle to level lift the motor by itself................ and yes, the two small 3/8 studs on the valve cover are plenty strong to lift the motor and front end. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 8:41pm
| My valve cover is already off. It has 2 studs. So just bolt a piece between the 2 studs, make a hole to hook the chain to, and lift? |
Posted By: wfmurray
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 9:06pm
| When I split mine I did like some of the above but to spread it apart I put pto and trans in gear and turned pto with visegrips. Moved easy. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 9:07pm
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Yes, I have 3-4 holes in the angle iron for lifting either end or center... I have a short 12 inch chain looped over the angle and both sides connected to the angle with one bolt... and the chain fall hook into that small chain loop... you can see 3-4 chains the (bad) photo because I have a 3/4 ton chainfall up in the rafter above and you can see the lift and pulling chains side by side. SEE PHOTO IN NEXT POST ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 9:17pm
 ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 9:25pm
| Thanks, Steve! That provides a clearer picture. |
Posted By: Skyhighballoon(MO)
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 11:06pm
Your sleeves...give the to me...or suffer my wrath!! LOL - Creston the fastest way to split open a tractor!  Mike------------- 1981 Gleaner F2 Corn Plus w 13' flex 1968 Gleaner EIII w 10' & 330 1969 180 gas 1965 D17 S-IV gas 1963 D17 S-III gas 1956 WD45 gas NF PS 1956 All-Crop 66 Big Bin 303 wire baler, 716H, 712H mowers |
Posted By: shameless (ne)
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 11:13pm
| Creston...ain't you gots a friend with a strong back and a weak mind, puts him on his hands and knees under it when you unbolt it! and don't ask me...i'm busy! |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 11:15pm
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I have a friend down the road that told me back in the day, he and his brother rebuilt a B and WD45, and when the engines were done, one would hold the engine up to the tractor while the other got the bolts started. Whew!!!
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Posted By: shameless (ne)
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2016 at 11:23pm
| I spose yer gonna brush paint that tractor too when yer done huh? |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2016 at 6:46am
| Nah, It's already got pretty good paint on it! |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2016 at 8:03am
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(Back in the day)  I would switch engines between two B's in an afternoon!My mowing tractor started spitting oil out the breather so I took the engine and off one I had just rebuilt and switched it with the one that needed work. Id did get dark before I got it back ready to mow. It was lunch time when I started. No help! No one would be able to help because I would keep telling then to get out of my way. Did it like this. 
 |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2016 at 8:19am
| Silly question but wouldn't it have been easier to move the mower? Great photos of how you did it I never take enough photos. |
Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2016 at 8:19am
| I just split my CA Monday I should have taken pictures. Block the rear And use a Cherry picker attached to the valve cover bolts. that is hoe the manual show to remove the engine. put a plank across the cherry picker legs and block from that to the wishbone. eveny thing will roll forward. since the engine is hanging it wont tip and the wish bone will stay in place as the block will roll with the cherry picker. I split mine Monday night after work. repaired the clutch fork and reassembled it Tuesday morning. I would have been done earlier but I lost fuel line clamp and ran out of small cotterpins so I had to wait till noon to finish it. I use a cross block stack of 6X6's with a 2X12 in the middle. make sure you block both rear tires or the rear end can move on you. |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2016 at 11:37am
Would have been if the one had not needed transmission work. |
Dan73 wrote:Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2016 at 11:47am
|
Dakota Dave, I'm trying to picture this, but I don't really understand what you mean by blocking the wishbone. Dick, it doesn't look like you used and kind of blocking on the wishbone, so maybe it isn't needed? Thanks
|
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2016 at 12:03pm
I used three jack stands. Two under the drawbar so the rear tires were just off the ground and on under the torque tube. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2016 at 12:06pm
| Thanks Dick, but I was talking about the engine half of the tractor. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2016 at 1:17pm
|
If you look at Dicks photos, he is lifting in the center of the motor. Not much weight on the front tires , they are just touching the ground.. Now if you are lifting toward the read of the motor and rolling on the front tires, you should block above the wishbone.
-
EIther way, a couple small boards shoved into the gap cant hurt. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2016 at 2:31pm
| B don't have a gap to block just a flat plate sticking down from the motor for a pivot point. when you lift the motor from the lifting point the front axle has no weight on it and will roll very easy. if you don't hold the wishbone up some way when you pull the assembly forward to separate from the back half the front of the wishbone pulls out of the pivot plate on the front of the engine. if you put a plank across the two legs of the cherry picker that are under the engine and just put a block on it I just use a 2x4 cut to length standing on the plank it holds the back of the wishbone up and when it slides out of the pivot point on the bell housing it stays about the same height and everything rolls together. there is no real weight on the wishbone my wife was able to lift it slightly with one hand to guide it back in the hole when I pushed it back together. if you let the wish bone on a CA come out of the front pivot point the tires decide to point different directions and it becomes less than fun to get it back together. you wont have that problem with a B so you might be able to skip it but I've found it easier to just keep the axle in place if I'm putting the tractor back together soon. When I did the oil pump on my C I had it split repaired and back together in 4 hours. the B and C are the easiest tractors ever to spit. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2016 at 11:19pm
|
Thanks guys! I got the tractor split this afternoon, an pulled the pump and cleaned up the mounting surface. Now I'm just waiting on my re-manufactured pump to get here! Hopefully it will arrive sometime during the week and can put it back together next weekend. Also...another question...I've got about an hour or so on my rebuilt engine in the B, and there is a tiny bit of antifreeze leaking out between the head and the block, but only on the left side. Uh oh. I did spray copper coat (spelling?) on it and let it become tacky before installing it. Do you think I can just torque the head down a little more? That trick worked on my 8N, but this B is a different animal.
|
Posted By: shameless (ne)
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2016 at 3:49am
| duct tape? it comes in orange now! |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2016 at 5:59am
| I would double check the torque. That said the same thing happened on my d15 and when I re torqued the bolts one snapped. It could be that one of the old head bolts is stretching as it fails. If it breaks off in the block it won't be fun to get out. |
Posted By: DanC911
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2016 at 8:27am
I second the motion on legs for the back. I use heavy duty uni-strut and lift the front with an engine hoist. ------------- 1950 WD, 1955 B, 66 Jacobsen Chief-O-Matic, 68 Simplicity 2110, 77 IH Cub Cadet 1450 w/front loader |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2016 at 10:14am
| Are the head bolts made soft like that so they stretch and snap? |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2016 at 10:56am
| I think they where just old in my case. |
Posted By: shameless (ne)
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2016 at 2:39pm
| never re-use stretch bolts |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2016 at 2:41pm
| My policy now is never reuse head bolts. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2016 at 3:28pm
|
head bolts from the 1940-1970 era and just plain grade 8 type bolts. They can be used over and over as long as they are not over torqued.. Some NEW auto engines use bolts that are torqued to the stretch point... They are designed to not reuse. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2016 at 11:13pm
|
So do you think I should get new bolts? My bolts don't have the marks on top for grade 8, or any grade. Maybe they just didn't label them? What would happen if they were over torqued? Would it strip the block threads out or break the bolt/strip it?
|
Posted By: shameless (ne)
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2016 at 12:52am
| try it and let us know! |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2016 at 2:10am
| After replacing the head gasket twice in my d15 and being very glad that the bolt that look ok when it was put in actually came out when I pulled it out. It was actually broken almost completely in two but came out I still don't know how I got that lucky. Really should have gotten a photo of that one. Let me see for me 2 extra head gaskets two fills of antifreeze and oil two oil filters god only knows how many hours lost taking it all apart cleaning and inspecting everything. Who knows how many years off my life for that stress of putting soo much into this motor and twice the head gasket won't hold first one lasted something like 4 hours of runtime. Steve might be right you can use the old bolts but to me new bolts are cheap considering what not buying them cost me. And that was still a lucky case no added motor damage to my freshly rebuilt motor from antifreeze getting into the oil and I was able to get the bolt out without having to mess around with the block. But heck if you are up for a gamble save a few dollars and use the old bolts. If someone didn't over stress then in the past what 80 years and someone didn't replace one with a grade 5 because they didn't know better or well it was there... Like steve said you could be fine and save a few dollars. |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2016 at 2:16am
| As far as i know grade 8 bolts where always marked it is part of the grade system. Old grade 5 bolts where considered standard hardware probably harder then modern grade 5 and not marked is what I was told probably 25 years ago now. |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2016 at 4:43am
|
If you didn't run a tap in the block holes to clean the threads the bolts can get to torque and still not be tight to the head. Run a 7/16" nut on the head bolts by hand to find stretched threads that was caused by tightening way past spec sometime in the past. If the nut will not turn on by hand after cleaning the threads you need to ditch/chuck/toss the old bolt. Grade eight bolts for new. 
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Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2016 at 6:54am
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Dick, I didn't run a tap into the block, but how would the head not torque down? Is it maybe because junk in the threads is providing resistance that gets the bolt to torque specs, but is a false reading because it's not actually torquing the head down that much?
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Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2016 at 7:36am
| Yup CrestonM you got it right on the money. They bind up in dirty threads instead of putting the correct force on the motor head. |