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PDehring 
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Joined: 06 Jun 2018
Location: Central MI
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 Topic: Popping Gears
Posted: 19 Jan 2019 at 11:50am |
I've seen a fair share of tractors for sale where the seller will say pops out of 3rd or 4th, etc. What causes the shifter to pop out of gear? Does it happen pulling a load, no load, going downhill, etc? I've also seen comments were its just the detent or a bent shifter fork.
If I was test driving a tractor, what would I need to do/look for to see if it has any gears that pop out during operation?
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Dusty MI
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Charlotte, Mi
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Posted: 19 Jan 2019 at 12:09pm |
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Grinding the gears when putting it in gear is the biggest cause.
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917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express"
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DougS
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Location: Iowa
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Posted: 19 Jan 2019 at 12:25pm |
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Worn shift collars due to grinding gears in the past.
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7060
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Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Location: Missouri
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Posted: 19 Jan 2019 at 12:34pm |
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Snap the power director back into low going down a hill or pull the throttle way back. Just be ready on the brakes if it does jump.
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DougG
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Posted: 19 Jan 2019 at 3:46pm |
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It a lot of operator eror as in grinding gears,, but I think Allis should have changed the design as the production ran for years and had this problem for years
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PDehring
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Location: Central MI
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Posted: 19 Jan 2019 at 4:26pm |
 7060 wrote:
Snap the power director back into low going down a hill or pull the throttle way back. Just be ready on the brakes if it does jump. |
Thanks, that makes sense.
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MACK
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Posted: 19 Jan 2019 at 9:43pm |
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A transmission brake would have fixed a lot of problems. MACK
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Nathan (SD)
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Location: Day County SD
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Posted: 19 Jan 2019 at 10:57pm |
MACK wrote:
A transmission brake would have fixed a lot of problems. MACK |
Exactly. Its absence kept the price down though.
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WF owner
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Location: Bombay NY
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Posted: 20 Jan 2019 at 5:59am |
A bit of advice. If the seller tells you, or you find by test driving the tractor, that it jumps out of gear, don't buy it unless you plan to invest (a ball park figure of) $2000 to repair it.
You might get lucky and it is something inexpensive, but be prepared for the worst. If it needs new transmission parts, they are expensive and installing them is a pretty big job.
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PDehring
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Posted: 20 Jan 2019 at 10:55am |
WF owner wrote:
A bit of advice. If the seller tells you, or you find by test driving the tractor, that it jumps out of gear, don't buy it unless you plan to invest (a ball park figure of) $2000 to repair it.
You might get lucky and it is something inexpensive, but be prepared for the worst. If it needs new transmission parts, they are expensive and installing them is a pretty big job. |
Thanks, that's what I was thinking as well. I want to stay away from any transmission issues. Even if the tractor was priced accordingly, there is still the parts and labor of making it right which is something I'm not looking to tackle right now.
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DougG
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Posted: 20 Jan 2019 at 1:07pm |
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Honestly if your looking at a ONE HUNDRED SERIES ALLIS just plan on it jumping out of gear ,, every one does eventually
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CrestonM
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Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Location: Oklahoma
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Posted: 20 Jan 2019 at 1:44pm |
DougG wrote:
Honestly if your looking at a ONE HUNDRED SERIES ALLIS just plan on it jumping out of gear ,, every one does eventually |
Did they fix it on the 200 series?
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7060
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Posted: 20 Jan 2019 at 2:23pm |
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I’ve had 4 and none of them jumped gears. Have a D17 that jumps out of high range when cold , and a 7060 that used to jump 4th before I fixed it. Treat them right and they won’t jump.
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WF owner
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Posted: 20 Jan 2019 at 4:43pm |
DougG wrote:
Honestly if your looking at a ONE HUNDRED SERIES ALLIS just plan on it jumping out of gear ,, every one does eventually |
Sorry, but I don't agree with that statement at all !
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DougG
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Posted: 20 Jan 2019 at 5:40pm |
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Just experience with these and an opinion as some 200,s jumped out of gear new, its also some to do with bearing wear, shifter detents and the sliding gear collar all wear over time
Edited by DougG - 21 Jan 2019 at 8:06am
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WF owner
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Posted: 20 Jan 2019 at 6:52pm |
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I still have Dad's (1968) 180 and (1978) 185. He bought them both new and I put a lot of hours on each one. Neither jump out of gear (and the 180 has a loader on it).
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Red Bank
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Posted: 20 Jan 2019 at 7:08pm |
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I have a 170 that is perfect and two 200s that both jump, which according to what I have read here can be fixed by removing the top of the transmission and repairing the fork. So to the original poster it depends on which tractor you are talking about. Also have a 5040 that doesn’t jump, but I figured no one considers that a true Allis.
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soggybottomboy
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Posted: 20 Jan 2019 at 7:27pm |
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In the mid to late 60s my brother bought a new 190 tractor. For some reason,that tractor was especially hard to shift without grinding the gears. At first,we would shut it off to put it in gear,but after awhile we learned to put it in low gear first,and then put it in the desired gear from there. The reason being that first gear is turning slower and the grinding is much less severe going into that gear. Putting it in first gear stops all the gears in the tranny,so you can then shift without grinding or clashing anything. When i bought my 175 in 1986,it had 1100 hours on it and it would slip out of third going downhill,so the damage can happen pretty quickly. My dad bought the 170 that i now own in 1972. I have always shifted that tractor as explained above,and it now has 14,000 hours on it. It does not slip out of gear. The only work ever done to the transmission was when the power director was tightened. It does not slip out of first gear either. This tractor had a loader on it too for many years,but not anymore. Some of you might think i'm full of baloney,but this works for me.
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AC720Man
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Joined: 10 Oct 2016
Location: Shenandoah, Va
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Posted: 20 Jan 2019 at 8:14pm |
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My ‘68 XT doesn’t jump out of gear. Follow the owners manual on shifting,have some patience, and it will shift as it should without popping out going down hill. Hour meter broke at 4073 hours, who knows how many are actually on the 51’year old tractor.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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AC720Man
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Posted: 20 Jan 2019 at 8:16pm |
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Dads ‘68 D15 isn’t a gear jumper either. Bought new in ‘68.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Relayman
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Posted: 21 Jan 2019 at 10:04am |
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I will tell my tale of an experience with a "gear-jumper". I bought a 1968 190XT with a locked-up foot clutch. Had to load it using only the power director which was a treat. I replaced the clutch to get it running but then found it was a bad "gear-jumper". Without deep pockets to fix it, I resorted to the tactics of a shade-tree mechanic. I welded up the 3-4 shift forks so it would just fit in the badly worn shift collar groove. This helped to keep the shift collar from "wobbling" when in gear. I then ground the 3-4 detent grooves on the shift rail so the shift fork could move as far forward and as far rearward as possible. This allowed the worn shift collar to get as much tooth engagement on the gears as possible. Plus the deeper shift rail grooves really helped to make it more difficult to jump out of gear. This tractor eventually became a farm-stock puller and we never had an issue with it jumping out of gear. I also have a 1971 190XT with 4500hrs that has never jumped out of gear.
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DougG
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Posted: 21 Jan 2019 at 10:10am |
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Those are all good places to start, cheapest anyway
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Lonn
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Posted: 22 Jan 2019 at 7:42am |
Between myself, one of my brothers and my dad we have had only three gear jumpers in the past 50 years. All were bought with that problem already existing. A WD45 that is on the list for restoration, a D17 that my brother immediately had repaired and used it to tractor pull, and a 190 I bought and used for years for haying and that only popped out a handful of times going down a steep ditch. The working tractors that spent many years here on the farm doing all kinds of tasks that have yet to pop out of gear are a 190XT Series III Landhandler, Dad's old D17 he bought in 1973 that was run almost everyday he owned it from 1973 to 1997 when when we quit milking cows, a gas 190XT Dad bought in 1977 that did all our heavy work but now sadly sits in the pasture, well with that tractor sitting in one spot for nearly 20 years is a long story and not the tractor's fault, and my brother has another D17 that's done a lot of haying and some tractor pulling. Those are not counting any of the collector tractors that are sitting waiting for a restore or the next tractor drive and not counting any recent purchases.
So with us the track record for D series and hundred series isn't too bad........... but I'll agree, nothing lasts forever and every tractor, if used, will eventually fail. Same could be said for a Deere 4020 PS or with the synchronized gear packs, lots of work in replacing synchronizers and expensive! Or a 1066 and its rear end, TA etc. They will fail if used enough, every one of them. Like an engine will only burn so much fuel and that is it.
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Charlie175
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Posted: 22 Jan 2019 at 8:40am |
This happens when you grind it in.
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Charlie
'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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Bear Taylor
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Posted: 22 Jan 2019 at 8:48am |
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I have owned a 170 for about five years and it has been used for major dirt work (shooting range berm), hauling broken tree limbs, drilling post holes, blading our 100 yard driveway and even loaned it to a neighbor so he could finish baling hay. I did notice it is prone to grind when going back and forth from 1st gear to reverse. I started slowing down the motor to idle before shifting and so far no jumping out of gear.
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Reindeer
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Posted: 22 Jan 2019 at 2:19pm |
The 170 I just sold to my brother in law has never jumped gears. Has a loader on it. The 5015 I have was inclined to jump gears just when you headed downhill towards the pond. Never got wet, but have some slopes that I mowed with it so did a detent spring up grade, and it has behaved well ever since.
The Mcmaster Carr number is 9595K35 which is a .375" by 1" die spring. They are hard to compress when installing. I had to grind off about a millimeter on one of them to get the compression capscrew started.
Edited by Reindeer - 22 Jan 2019 at 2:26pm
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wekracer
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Posted: 22 Jan 2019 at 3:03pm |
Bear Taylor wrote:
I have owned a 170 for about five years and it has been used for major dirt work (shooting range berm), hauling broken tree limbs, drilling post holes, blading our 100 yard driveway and even loaned it to a neighbor so he could finish baling hay. I did notice it is prone to grind when going back and forth from 1st gear to reverse. I started slowing down the motor to idle before shifting and so far no jumping out of gear. |
Do you stop the tractor before you take it out of gear. If not the transmission is still spinning. If you stop first the transmission will be stopped and shouldn’t grind unless your clutch is dragging. I can move round bales all afternoon and not scratch a gear.
Edited by wekracer - 23 Jan 2019 at 6:52am
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
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Posted: 22 Jan 2019 at 7:40pm |
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I do like WEK does with my D17 and CA. I think the previous owners of each must have done the same because both tractors shift easily and don't jump. One thing that helps on the CA is I leave the PTO engaged so the hydraulic pump quickly drags the gears to a stop.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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DREAM
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Posted: 22 Jan 2019 at 7:47pm |
Grandads C still has no issues with the transmission since 1950 that I know of. One thing he did before he started the tractor was to lock the clutch pedal down. There is supposed to be a rod that can be swung into place to do that. He would also do that if he got off the tractor with it running. Latch the parking brakes, put it in neutral, lock the clutch pedal down. Used to also stay on my a$$ if I rode the clutch at all. Said it was bad for the clutch throwout bearing. Guess he knew what he was talking about. Only saw it split for a clutch once in my lifetime, but he had quit farming with it years before. Dad still uses it for the garden occasionally. My C on the other hand, jumps out of 2nd and 3rd if you just turn down a slight incline. Probably has something to do with the transmission sitting full of water for lord knows how long before I bought it. Guess I should take a look at that one day.... I know, wrong tractor maybe, but saying the way someone treated it before you get it will have a lot to do with issues you have. Unfortunately, cant go buy a new one nowadays.
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I didn't do it! It was a short, fat, tall, skinny guy that looked like me!
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Beirnesy
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Posted: 22 Jan 2019 at 8:03pm |
When I bought this 190 tractor when you let the clutch out in 3rd or 4th gear it would pop into neutral it was so bad, So I tore it down and replaced input shaft (4th gear) along with 3rd and sliding colar. Engagement teeth became arrow head in shape and this caused gear poping. DO NOT GRIND GEARS
Edited by Beirnesy - 24 Jan 2019 at 4:42pm
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1969 220,1967 190DXT,1968 190DXT, LGT's 710,,716
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