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acisbest 
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Location: SE, PA
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 Topic: Picked up an Allis Chalmers B Today
Posted: 14 Aug 2020 at 8:45pm |
What am I doing? Picked up a B today from my daughters old boyfriend. This tractor makes 7 Allis Chalmers...
They broke up and he lost interest in the Tractor Hobby. The tractor sat outside for three years.
I had done a head rebuild about 10 years ago with him. It was a great looking and running B. Now its stuck tight.
Got it home today, took the plugs out and there was some rust on the ends of the plugs. Shot PB Blaster down the plug hole. I'm hoping with time it might loosen up.
The tractor is crank start only. No ring gear on the fly wheel. I tried rocking it back and forth while in 3rd gear, no fan movement.
I don't want to pull another motor, I have a million projects ahead of that one. I've already rebuilt a CA that probably has about 1 hour if that on it.
There aren't enough hours in a minute.
Any other ideas? would marvel mystery oil be better? Diesel? SHould I fill the cylinders entirely?
He also said he drained the oil and got about 2 cups of water out.... That could have happened with condensation. One year my WC had so much water in the gear box it froze up.... Once it warmed up and I drained it everything was fine.
I'm droning. Thanks in advance for any other advice.
Regards,
acisbest
Allis Chalmers B,C,CA,G,WC,WD,D17, HD6G
Edited by acisbest - 14 Aug 2020 at 9:14pm
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Bill Long
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Location: Bel Air, MD
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Posted: 14 Aug 2020 at 9:15pm |
You saved another of my favorites - the Allis Chalmers B. Thank you Good Luck! Bill Long
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 14 Aug 2020 at 10:27pm |
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WOW... a WAR TIME B with the correct fenders / air intake and has rear wheel weights and front side weights... thats a winner !!
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 14 Aug 2020 at 10:36pm |
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lot of guys use auto trans fluid (ATF) and mix with acetone... suppose to eat thru the old rust and end up in the crank case.... I would put several ounces into each cylinder and let it set... FIlling to the top might be a good idea.. you can monitor what leaks by looking in the plug hole.... let it set for a week or two.. then rock.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Boss Man
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Posted: 15 Aug 2020 at 7:35am |
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Nice looking tractor
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Mike R. in Maine
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Posted: 15 Aug 2020 at 8:12am |
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I totally understand time is precious, but pulling the head doesn't take all that long or immobilize the tractor. Then you can take a razor blade to slice the crust around the pistons, to allow your soaking juice of choice ,to get down in. Also allows you to take a block of hard wood that fits the hole to jar the pistons to encourage them to let go. Another method I've used is to train refrigerant using a gauge set ment to service cars at the pistons ....this will cause them to flash freeze and expand and contract helping them let go. Do this in an open space if you use more than a couple cans. Good luck saving the jewel. Mike
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 15 Aug 2020 at 9:26am |
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If you pull the head, remember this is a wet sleeve motor... Bumping the pistons can make a sleeve move UP out of the fit... make sure you put a plate and head bolt back in to hold them STEADY.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Brian G. NY
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Posted: 15 Aug 2020 at 5:27pm |
 steve(ill) wrote:
WOW... a WAR TIME B with the correct fenders / air intake and has rear wheel weights and front side weights... thats a winner !! |
Yeah, that tractor has a lot going for it!
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DiyDave
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Posted: 15 Aug 2020 at 5:29pm |
Marvel mystery oil IS atf! That being said, if you want to spend 3x as much as regular atf, knock yourself out. I'd follow the good advice above... 
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Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need!
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acisbest
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Posted: 15 Aug 2020 at 8:49pm |
Its soaking with ATF and acetone all the way up to the plug holes. I'll give it two weeks. Then, I'll probably give it more time than that. I don't want to rebuild another tractor that I probably won't use. I did a total engine job on my CA and still have not finished that tractor. I'll probably mothball the B until I have time to do it right.
I've worked on a lot of frozen engines and its rare that I can free them up without pulling them apart. I'm curious to see if this recommended concoction will work. I'm rocking it back and forth in third. I will not be forcing anything.
I'm not optimistic but if it works I will be happy.
Thanks for all of the suggestions.
Regards,
acisbest SE PA
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 15 Aug 2020 at 9:55pm |
I've worked on a lot of frozen engines and its rare that I can free them up without pulling them apart. I'm curious to see if this recommended concoction will work. I'm rocking it back and forth in third. I will not be forcing anything.
I personally have not had a lot of luck either.. I think it really depends on how STUCK they are and how much RUST.... The couple that i had that were STUCK came apart with the pistons frozen inside the liners.. Tried to press one out and ruined the piston.. The other had a split liner... this was after soaking for a month.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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WF owner
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Posted: 16 Aug 2020 at 7:36am |
steve(ill) wrote:
lot of guys use auto trans fluid (ATF) and mix with acetone... suppose to eat thru the old rust and end up in the crank case.... I would put several ounces into each cylinder and let it set... FIlling to the top might be a good idea.. you can monitor what leaks by looking in the plug hole.... let it set for a week or two.. then rock. |
In addition to what Steve said, I have made a fitting that screws into a spark plug hole that an air fitting fits into. I take the valve cover off and remove the rocker arm and try to get the valves closed (it's usually the cylinder with the exhaust valve open that is stuck). I attach an air hose, with a regulator and let it sit.
If you have a borescope camera (there are some inexpensive ones that transmit to your smart phone), it will sometimes tell you that you are wasting your time before you pull the head off. If the sleeve is all rusted and pitted, forget it.
With that said, I haven't had great luck freeing up stuck engines and even poorer luck getting the few that did free up, running without fouling spark plugs or excessive smoking and oil consumption.
Good luck !!!
Edit: If you fill the cylinder to the plug hole (as Steve said), thread a plug back into the hole. Acetone evaporates.
Edited by WF owner - 16 Aug 2020 at 7:39am
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Dick L
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Posted: 17 Aug 2020 at 7:09am |
I have had excellent luck freeing up stuck engines in a very short time. They always run well and have few problems years after. 
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john2189
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Posted: 17 Aug 2020 at 7:52am |
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Could just be a stuck valve. I just did one that was sitting out side for three years. After it bent the pushrod, it turned over. Loosen the valve by tapping with a hammer another pushrod and it started.
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'41 Allis B
'45 Allis B
'49 Farmall Cub
'72 IH Cub
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WF owner
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Posted: 17 Aug 2020 at 8:15am |
I've had good luck that way too, Dick L !!!
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 17 Aug 2020 at 9:55am |
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YEP......... DICK has the plan for stuck motors... Thats what i always end up doing.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Joe(OH)
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Posted: 17 Aug 2020 at 10:40am |
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A few years ago I picked up a WD that had sat in a field for years with the exhaust open. I bought it for the rear wheels and some other parts. The engine was stuck tight. I decided I wasn't out much by trying to free it with acetone and atf. I made sure the cylinders were full everyday. I also engaged the pto and put a 6 foot pipe wrench on it with a suitcase weight hanging on it. After about a week of soaking I had a big friend, about 300 pounds, push on the pipe wrench and the engine turned over! I then got it fired up and it ran great. I had to clean the spark plugs often at first as they would fill up with rust and short out, but eventually I got all the junk out of the cylinders.
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Life is simpler when you plow around the stump.
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Hillmann
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Posted: 17 Aug 2020 at 2:28pm |
I have had two old engines (one truck, one tractor) that were stuck solid. On the truck I filled the cylinders with diesel every week all winter and it did no good. I took the head of and could see not rust, I tried pounding the pistons down with a wood cylinder, I couldn't budge it. I was going to pull the engine and found the bell housing was full of acorns. I put the truck in a forward gear and drug it around backwards and started spinning and I was able to get the acorns out.
On the tractor I tried soaking the pistons and it was stuck solid. I eventually remembered and checked and found that the bell housing was full of acorns again. I pulled the starter and with a big screwdriver I was able to turn the engine over and remove the acorns.
In both cases I could have sworn that the engines were seized up when in reality it was a very minor problem. It may be worth a check on yours.
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DiyDave
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Posted: 17 Aug 2020 at 5:32pm |
Sadly, if it sat out for 3 years, and had 2 cups of water in the motor oil, I'd hazard a guess, and say that water leaked in through an open (uncovered) exhaust, into the manifold, and down the nearest open valve, to a cylinder, and down to the pan. Lots of potential frozen parts, on the way. But, the ATF/acetone and time will tell...
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Dan Hauter
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Posted: 17 Aug 2020 at 10:22pm |
This is a "fix' told to me by a fellow Allis-Chalmers guy: Put your brand of lubricant in the plug holes, put tractor on a trailer, don't chain it down, put tractor in gear, drive slowly down a lane or deserted country road stopping frequently, make sure to watch the tractor tires in the mirror, when you see the wheels moving, stop and chain the tractor down. I have yet to try this method. Good luck and be very careful if you dare to try it. Dan. 
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acisbest
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Posted: 28 Aug 2020 at 9:11pm |
Waited almost two weeks on the acetone and no luck. My brother helped me pull it with my C, no luck, frozen solid.
Decided to take the advice and pull off the head. Took about 1/2 hour, head was off. Lots of water with acetone in 3 and 4. 1 and 2 full of deep rust. Surprisingly 3 and 4 looked good....
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acisbest
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Posted: 28 Aug 2020 at 9:12pm |
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 28 Aug 2020 at 9:26pm |
thats the problem i have run into.. When you have corrosion 1/16 inch deep into the cylinder walls, you are NOT going to get it to run, even if you break it loose... The AFT story is for surfac rusted or stuck WITHOUT any extensive corrosion..
Your going to find the rings are frozen in the pistons also.
Edited by steve(ill) - 28 Aug 2020 at 9:30pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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acisbest
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Posted: 28 Aug 2020 at 9:30pm |
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acisbest
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Posted: 29 Aug 2020 at 4:57am |
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Agreed, those cylinders are toast. He must have left the muffler open. . The tractor was not tarped..
I store my tractors outside. Always tarped.
I always pull my pipes off, easier on the tarps, plus I put the weather flaps on my pipes in case I fail to tarp when I am using them. I always put a rock over the manifold hole in case the tarp blows off.
Hopefully the crank is ok. I have already rebuilt the head, will look that over today for rust... Not hopefull. Where do I get an low cost jug and piston set and why do I need 7 tractors?
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WF owner
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Posted: 29 Aug 2020 at 7:26am |
I am betting you are thinking that it will not get run very much and cheap parts will be fine.
When you are doing the overhaul, the costs of gaskets. machine work and labor are the same whether you use cheap or good quality parts . You will be much happier in the end, if you use quality parts.
My advice is buy 4 (not just replace the 2 bad ones !) new sleeve/piston/rings assemblies and do the job right.
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 29 Aug 2020 at 9:55am |
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Since you don't really need it and don't want to put the effort into fixing it.....offer it for sale? Has a lot of promise and it not a cobble job. There's someone who would love that as a project.
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acisbest
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Posted: 29 Aug 2020 at 2:31pm |
Oh well, always wanted the B. I'll end up doing it right. Just saw a picture on Facebook of a guy that had 15 AC G's in a barn, all in great shape. I guess comparatively 7 tractors is not bad.
Wheres the best place to buy a good set of jugs and pistons? Good quality, low cost....
Regards,
Acisbest AC: C,CA,WD,WC,D17,G, HDG6, and now B.
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WF owner
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Posted: 29 Aug 2020 at 2:36pm |
Try Jim Danforth at OK Tractor.
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sparky
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Posted: 29 Aug 2020 at 6:55pm |
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Good luck with that.
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It's the color tractor my grandpa had!
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