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Perkins Diesel in an Allis
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Scott(SC) View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Starr, SC
Points: 397 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scott(SC) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Perkins Diesel in an Allis
    Posted: 24 Nov 2011 at 7:11pm
The post about putting a 149 in a CA got me wondering. How hard would it be to put a Perkins diesel into a D14? I would love to have the efficiency of the diesel and the feel and drive of my D14.
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norm[ind] View Drop Down
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Joined: 29 Oct 2010
Location: bourbon,ind
Points: 2992 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote norm[ind] Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2011 at 7:25pm
  start in   let us know
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Nathan (SD) View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Day County SD
Points: 1274 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nathan (SD) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2011 at 9:13am

4.108 is just a touch longer than a 149.
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Seth Souerdike View Drop Down
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Joined: 22 Nov 2011
Location: Cutler Indiana
Points: 4113 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seth Souerdike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2011 at 9:37am
yeah Nathen is right dead on, 4.108 is a bit longer than a 149 let me know if it works this sounds intresting.
There are no atheist in foxholes.
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Orange Blood View Drop Down
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Joined: 29 Nov 2010
Location: ColoradoSprings
Points: 4053 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Orange Blood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2011 at 10:26am
My question is, wasn't the CA engine the frame as well, or did it have frame rails?  Any transplant into a tractor without frame rails will be very challenging, at the least.
 
We have many 4.108 perkins, and I don't think the casting is strong enough to hadle the stresses of being a frame for the tractor.
Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060
Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7
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DougS View Drop Down
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Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Location: Iowa
Points: 2490 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2011 at 11:15am
The 160 used the Perkins AD 3.152.  I believe the MF 35/135 also used the 3.152.  Would it bolt up?  Are the flywheels different? You'll have to do your own research on that one.
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kffischer View Drop Down
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Joined: 26 Feb 2011
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Points: 121 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kffischer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2011 at 11:31am
some guy made a 4x4 out of b or c trans parts and a toyota engine, so anything can be done.  It depends on how much creativity and fabrication skills you have or effort you are willing to put forth.
 good luck!
karl f
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Scott(SC) View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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Points: 397 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scott(SC) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2011 at 5:20pm
Don't know much about what works with what, just enjoy using the D14 and wish it was more efficient. The strength of the engine as part of the frame made me think. Didn't some of the Allis's use Perkins diesels? Don't want to spend a dollar to save a nickle, I am curious. Thanks.
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Orange Blood View Drop Down
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Joined: 29 Nov 2010
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Points: 4053 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Orange Blood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2011 at 5:56pm
Yes perkins were used in the 160s and maybe a couple of others, but those had a frame rail.
Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060
Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7
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DougS View Drop Down
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Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Location: Iowa
Points: 2490 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2011 at 6:02pm
Originally posted by Orange Blood Orange Blood wrote:

Yes perkins were used in the 160s and maybe a couple of others, but those had a frame rail.
The MF 35 didn't have a frame rail.  I'm sure the 3.152 wouldn't need frame rails.  BTW the 4.108 has about 50 HP, but that is at 4000 RPM.  You are going to need gear reduction with a 4.108 or you aren't going to be able to get nearly as much HP from that engine.
 
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Orange Blood View Drop Down
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Joined: 29 Nov 2010
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Points: 4053 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Orange Blood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2011 at 7:14pm
It may not need a frame rail, but I would really want to look the casting over first to see just how thin some areas are.  My only experiance with perkins is the 4.108, and ours are all early 80s maybe late 70s engines for power units on wells.  I can tell you this ours with the factory pump setup does not run 4grand at full throttle, I am fairly sure the last time I tached one off the end of the cutch it was in the 2200 range.  Now that being said, I think ours were rated around 40hp, so maybe Perkins has done some work on them since then.
Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060
Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7
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Scott(SC) View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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Points: 397 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scott(SC) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2011 at 7:59pm
WE have a 135 Massey and a Fordson Dexta (32hp). I noticed both have adapter plates to hook to the torque tubes. They are both 3 cylinder, dependable and efficient. My ignorance kicks in when it comes to starter, flywheel, clutch and clutch shaft compatability. Occasionally I see a Dexta cheap and wondered if it would be worth while.
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Gerald J. View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton Co, IA
Points: 5636 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2011 at 8:58pm
The MF35 and MF135  used slightly different models of the Perkins 3 cylinder diesel. I hadn't noticed any adapter plate from engine to bell housing in my MF 135 parts book but I usually skip over those pages because my MF 135 has a Continental gas engine. Later 135s came with a 3 cylinder gas engine for the gas option.

The front axle assembly bolts to a bracket that bolts primarily to the oil pan which is a substantial casting, not a steel stamping. The bell housing bolts to the engine block and the oil pan. There are no side rails at all. MF loaders bolt to the font axle bracket and to the bottom of the bell housing. The front axle bracket is different from Continental to Perkins and may be different from Perkins gas to Perkins diesel. Sometime I could look in the parts book for more details but I'd rather not tonight.

Gerald J.
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Don M SEIA View Drop Down
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Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Location: Danville, Iowa
Points: 119 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don M SEIA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2011 at 9:44am
AC 170 and 175 had 4 cylinder Perkins diesels
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B26240 View Drop Down
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Joined: 21 Nov 2009
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Points: 3860 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B26240 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 5:31pm
I had a 230 massey and it had the 3 cyl. perkins and was a great fuel eficient engine! don't remember any frame rails.
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DREAM View Drop Down
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Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Location: Elberton,GA
Points: 1828 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DREAM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 8:03pm
You could use the Perkins in a frameless application, but you would have to have a cast or machined "structural sump" instead of a stamped oil pan, as has already been stated. The stress on the block would be too much, especially with a FEL or front weights. The blocks may be heavy, but they're not solid. Lots of cast passageways for oil, water, and such. Of course, you wouldn't have an issue with that if you used one out of a MF or a Fordson with the structural sump.
I didn't do it! It was a short, fat, tall, skinny guy that looked like me!
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